[cel4145]

Some HE-400s might give you what you want with better bass: http://www.razordogaudio.com/collections/headphones/products/hifiman-he-400-planar-driver-over-the-ear-headphone

Because they are planar magnetics, they have excellent transient response, giving them very well-refined bass. They would need an amp, though.

Read about them in the Battle of the Flagships: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13

 

[Tavilyn]

Well, in the short-term I've managed to find a store near here that will let you audition headphones, and they've got a couple of the Sennheisers I've wanted to look at on offer. I'm gonna run over there, get a feel for how I like them, then I'll probably be back with a couple of questions. Incidentally, this store I found sells the 598 model for nearly four hundred bucks but I just saw it on Amazon.ca for something like $240, so if I like those it might be worth pouncing. I don't think this store has the Denon model mentioned earlier though, so I might want a bit of a comparison when I come back and have a better Sennheiser impression. I'm sorry for all this fumbling and pickiness, guys; I suppose you get it all the time and it must be frustrating. I'm trying to do my homework though, I really am. One question though: could one of you who knows more about this than I do have a quick look at something? Logitech G35s have an impedance of 32OHM, which is pretty standard and means they play off a lot of stuff. They're not all that loud, really. HyperX Cloud 2 has an impedance of 50OHM, but rather than being quieter on the same system, they're far, far louder. All this, and yet the DT880s are about as quiet as the Logitech and at 8x the impedance. Is this a combination of multiple factors besides impedance, and if so, what other factors will play into this? I don't necessarily want volume so loud my ears hurt, but I don't want to have to max the volume just to be immersed, you know?

 

[Youth]

First of all ohm isn't everything. Someone with better knowlegde than me can explain this.
 
Are you sure you are using the amp on the FiiO? I've heard people plug in their devices but somehow still only use the dac or amp.

 

[cel4145]

Sensitivity is the headphone measurement that tells you how loud they will get for their impedance. And then some headphone amps do better at powering lower impedance headphones; some are better at higher impedance. Most portable devices are configured better for lower impedance, but a bit higher impedance headphone (50 ohm vs 32 ohm) with better sensitivity could certainly get louder on a portable device.

Given your concerns about how loud headphones get, you are a prime candidate for a headphone amp. If headphone amps in devices are pushed near their maximum volume in your listening to get the volume you want, you are most likely losing dynamics which affects sound quality.

 

[Tavilyn]

I'm pretty sure I was using the amp/dac both. I know the volume, bass and gain worked. Those things were all engaged, and I noticed different things with each. That stands to reason that they were working; I had the headphone plugged in on the front, next to the volume control, and it worked that way. There's another hole on the back, I think, but I'm pretty sure that's the wrong one. Regarding sensitivity, thanks for the info. If I understand then, the Denon AH-D600, for instance, has a DB of something like 112, and a low impedance, which means it can get dangerously loud, while the Logitech's sensitivity is only 90, the DT980 is 95 I think, and the Kingston is 98. Was surprised to see the HD598 at higher than both the Kingston gamer set I tried and the DT880, but there you are. One question though: are the HD518, 558 and 598 all basically the same sound with different builds, functionally speaking, or would I do best t grab the 598 if I want the best sound from that particular series in my price range, assuming I go that route at all? Tusns out that my headphone store does in fact have the AH-D600, so I'll come back and tell you what I think if I can audition them.

 

[Youth]

If you are looking for bass then I dont think Sennheiser is the best place to look. I would start by looking at DT990 Pro 250 ohm and then if that is not enough go up the ladder.

 

[cel4145]

Regarding sensitivity, thanks for the info. If I understand then, the Denon AH-D600, for instance, has a DB of something like 112, and a low impedance, which means it can get dangerously loud, while the Logitech's sensitivity is only 90, the DT980 is 95 I think, and the Kingston is 98. Was surprised to see the HD598 at higher than both the Kingston gamer set I tried and the DT880, but there you are.

Be aware that sensitivity may be expressed in terms of mW or V, and you can't compare the two back and forth.

And then impedance does matter. You have to factor that in as well when the impedance is very different.

So if the headphones use the same measure (mW or V) AND they have similar impedance, then you can compare them. Otherwise, for different impedance and mW, you have to know what the power output is of the amplifier. If expressed in V, you need to know the voltage output of the amplifier.

In other words, it's complicated. My advice to you is focus on picking out headphones that would seem to have the type of sound you want. THEN AFTER THAT, you can ask people to help you decide which need an amp (or not) and how much amp.

 

[Tavilyn]

So, I've just gotten back from my audition. It wasn't quite what I thought it would be; the guy I spke to was nice enough, but was clearly suffering a huge, and I do mean huge, Sennheiser bias. Also made the claim that "any audiophile worth their salt prefers a flat sound; if you want a curve of any kind you're not really an audiophile.". Funny, I thought an audiophile was essentially just someone who liked music enough to be picky about it, one way or another. In any case, I got to test only three sets of cans: the Sennheiser HD800, HD650 and the Denon AH-D600. The HD800 is way out of my range and needs a lot of driving before it's optimized, but it did sound good and showed me that I don't mind the Sennheiser sound at all. Very open though, holy god. Listened to American Dream by Crosby Stills Nash and Young, and it was the first time I've ever heard a headphone that makes it sound like there were singers or effects pretty much all the way around me. The 650 gave me the same thing, and the difference between the two, for me, was there but not staring me in the face (perhaps because the 800 has a ton of upward mobility I wasn't seeing regarding amps and stuff). The salesman told me that he wasn't amping or using a dac or anything, but he didn't actually explain his setup even when I asked so I don't have further details; all I know is that he had a whole bunch of demo headphones on pegs on a wall, all of them hooked into the same sort of sound source. Anyway, the Denon was nice, a lot punchier but also a lot more closed-up. Really highlighted the difference between the open-back and close-back...I think I like open better in general. So this is where I say that I like the Sennheiser sound, though I wouldn't say no to similar clarity with a slightly bassier lean. Would something like the HD598 or even the HD558 give me that without sacrificing too much? I'm reluctant to go as high as the 650 because of both its price point and its dependency upon an amp to sound good. I hope this helps streamline things a bit, I'm aware I've been sort of shooting in the dark a bit up till now. Thanks in advance, btw.

 

[serman005]

I can't comment on the HD800, 650, or the Denon you looked at. But of the two other Senns you identify (598 and 558), I can comment. First off, the 558 has the better bass--that's for sure. That said, I feel you give up substantive detail and soundstaging and neutrality with the 558 compared to the 598, though some folks feel this distinction is less of a gap than others. There is somewhat of a controversy here, if you read all the posts on the issue (which I have done at length and which are somewhat confused by the fact that modifying 558s is rather common practice). In sum, most people feel the 598 is significantly better than the (unmodified) 558. To me, the 598 has plenty of bass for enjoyment of music and it is a very, very good can, which is why so many on this site own it (full disclosure--I am one of those owners of the 598, but I also own several other cans from different manufacturers). If you get the 598 or the 558 from amazon, you can return it if you don't like it. Personally, if that is what you are evaluating, I would go with the 598 (I was in a similar boat when I purchased, deciding between 558 and 598). The 650 is much better, according to everyone I've asked, but the 598 is certainly no slouch. I can't imagine you being unhappy with it. It just doesn't have tons of bass. If that is vital to you, I agree with EDMaddict--don't go with Sennheiser. Food for thought.
 
Lastly, if you like open cans, I would suggests you look at the Soundmagic HP200, which is fantastic and in the same price range as the HD598 (a bit less, depending on what deals are currently on). You can read about it on this site by entering "Soundmagic HP200" into the head-fi search bar above. There are several threads to read and 4 reviews.

 

[Tavilyn]

It bears mentioning that I'm coming off a set of DT880s, the 250 ohm model, which, while not bad necessarily, were underwhelming. I don't feel like Sennheiser will give the same sort of sound signature, it felt a little nicer and more open, but I am also well aware that my experience is extremely limited and thus of questionable validity. I like open cans in the sense that sounsstage is great, but I do like bass as well. Guess I'm hard to please, since I know bass and open-backs don't go quite so well together much of the time. I'd be happy to go closed if the cans had a good clear presentation without sounding stuffy or too full of boom and sizzle. Tell you what though; depending on your salesperson, auditioning cans is kind of hit and miss. I understand the guy's trying to make a sale, but rather than talk to me about the sound or offer me multiple choices, he asked me what I wanted to buy straight off, and when I said I needed to audition a few, he focused on my budget above all other concerns rather than my sound preferences. And like I say, heavy Sennheiser preference. I have the sense that I'm either going to be on a long road of indecision, or I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet, return these DT880s (which I'm going to do anyway) and pull the trigger on something else that works for me. I'm wary of ordering too much from Amazon, even if they will take it back, as I don't want to ge the guy who's always buying and then returning audio gear at a dead loss for the company.

 

[serman005]

  It bears mentioning that I'm coming off a set of DT880s, the 250 ohm model, which, while not bad necessarily, were underwhelming. I don't feel like Sennheiser will give the same sort of sound signature, it felt a little nicer and more open, but I am also well aware that my experience is extremely limited and thus of questionable validity. I like open cans in the sense that sounsstage is great, but I do like bass as well. Guess I'm hard to please, since I know bass and open-backs don't go quite so well together much of the time. I'd be happy to go closed if the cans had a good clear presentation without sounding stuffy or too full of boom and sizzle. Tell you what though; depending on your salesperson, auditioning cans is kind of hit and miss. I understand the guy's trying to make a sale, but rather than talk to me about the sound or offer me multiple choices, he asked me what I wanted to buy straight off, and when I said I needed to audition a few, he focused on my budget above all other concerns rather than my sound preferences. And like I say, heavy Sennheiser preference. I have the sense that I'm either going to be on a long road of indecision, or I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet, return these DT880s (which I'm going to do anyway) and pull the trigger on something else that works for me. I'm wary of ordering too much from Amazon, even if they will take it back, as I don't want to ge the guy who's always buying and then returning audio gear at a dead loss for the company.

I hear you. It is a challenging decision. I suspect at some point, you are just going to have to pull the trigger and see what follows. Best of luck to you in any event.

 

[BigJoe]

Have you tried the Beyer DT990's? They would definitely be worth a listen I'd say, and I wouldn't discount simply because you're not enamored with the DT880.

 

[Tavilyn]

I don't know anywhere besides Amazon that sells the DT990, so no, I haven't had a listen yet. I assume they're a bit bigger, sort of brassier sound? Stronger treble, stronger bass? Also having the issue that I'm not sure I want to keep my amp, so unless the 32-ohm version is considerably easier to drive and will be louder without an amp, it might not be worth me going after another Beyer product. I'm not completely turning away from them, just a little gun-shy because it wasn't only she sound but the overall output I was underwhelmed with.

 

[Tavilyn]

Right...so I think I'm going to try out the Sennheiser 598. I still have my FIIO-E10K and I might keep it while returning the DT880s. The DB rating seems higher on the 598s, but as someone said before, DB isn't everything and neither is the impedance rating. That being said, if I want to make these fairly loud plugged into nothing mor  than a mobile device, will they do better for that, based on their specs, than the Beyers I have currently? It looks like they will, but I'm not sure. One other sort of related query here. I'm seeing a whole pile of these going on EBay for the 140-160 dollar mark. Is Ebay safe enough that I could buy headphones there or am I better off biting the bullet, spending the extra eighty bucks or more via Amazon and having my butt covered? I just wonder if EBay is common enough to warrant attention or if I should ignore it.

 

[Mr Rick]

  Right...so I think I'm going to try out the Sennheiser 598. I still have my FIIO-E10K and I might keep it while returning the DT880s. The DB rating seems higher on the 598s, but as someone said before, DB isn't everything and neither is the impedance rating. That being said, if I want to make these fairly loud plugged into nothing mor  than a mobile device, will they do better for that, based on their specs, than the Beyers I have currently? It looks like they will, but I'm not sure. One other sort of related query here. I'm seeing a whole pile of these going on EBay for the 140-160 dollar mark. Is Ebay safe enough that I could buy headphones there or am I better off biting the bullet, spending the extra eighty bucks or more via Amazon and having my butt covered? I just wonder if EBay is common enough to warrant attention or if I should ignore it.

Amazon has the HD598s for $147.00 US, and free shipping.