[drewvoros]

Hi Head-Fiers
 
New here and a newbie in this headphone game. Currently rocking (for the past 2 yrs) a set of Shure SRH 440s and since jumping aboard the Head-Fi community, just about a week ago, will be receiving replacement SRH940 ear pads for the Shures (the comfort difference will be a godsend!!! So glad I found the community!) and also my first dip into the open back headphone world with a pair of Sennheiser HD558s coming in the mail too. Two new purchases in less then a week from joining the community!
 
Well now I'm interested in tip-toeing into the headphone amp and DAC world. Like I said I am completely new to all of the this and have been reading as much info as I can. So I want to jump in and see what's the difference, what's the big deal, isn't straight out the headphone jack enough?!? Currently I listen to all my music (as I'm sure you can already guess) through my laptop (Macbook Pro) or iPhone 4 output through their built in headphone jacks. As for music I mostly focus on singer/songwriter, acoustic, pop/rock, vocals, some orchestral. I do enjoy the occasional Dubstep drops

 
So here are my questions:
Precursor: From my reading, I think I sort of understand the notion that headphone amps, though having the ability to increase volume of the headphone, its main purpose is improve audio quality of a headphone.
 
1. The big difference, is it that noticeable? Bear in mind I don't want to delve too deep into an amp (budget-wise) as I'm just starting out, so let's say I'm purchasing the Headroom BitHead or a Fiio product.
 
2. Does the DAC  (let's say on the BitHead or any headphone amp/DAC combination as that's what I'll be considering) affect EQ settings from my source, as in will I still be able to control it via my computer or player, or does the DAC just take over with it's own signature (see how I just used a Head-Fi big audio boy term!

). For instance I really enjoy the Jazz EQ setting via iTunes, will I still be able to use it?
 
Also feel free to chime in on BitHead ($150) or other amp/DAC beginner setups recommendations at around the same price. I will be listening via desktop on my laptop mostly so portability is not the main issue, it's price and beginner friendliness! I will no doubt still be obsessively reading all the review threads here.
 
Thanks again for opening up the world of audio for a newbie!

 

[Papander]

If the volume is loud enough, buying amp/dac is not worth it. The difference in sound is very subtle.

I did a test with 2 of my friends. One would change the source without the other 2 seeing which source was selected. Then they would listen to few tracks and rate the audio quality and try to guess what was the source. The results were a mix, meaning that we could not predict with a high percentage the correct sound source. It was easier to guess with just 1 soundtrack, but much harder with multiple tracks. There also was a case were we thought it sounded slightly better than it did before, eventhough nothing had changed. The other guy just tricked us by pretending that he had changed the source while in fact he had done nothing.

We did this test with K601 headphones, E10 amp/dac, E9 amp, motherboards integrated chipset, X-fi XtremeGamer sound card.

You can still use the players EQ while you are using amp.

 

[clarknova]

It completely depends on you. Sound just like any other sense is perceived differently for each person. You may find that even a cheap setup isn't good enough for your critical ears. Or you may find that there is no difference at all.
 
The best way to tell is to start with something low priced and buy from a source with a flexible return policy in case things don't work out.
 
Whatever you do , don't just dump $500+ into cans + DAC/AMP , always take baby steps until you reach the point where you feel satisfied.

 

[mynameissang]

This is coming from having used/currently using the Fiio E10 (which I recommend taking a look at, if you haven't yet). I assume the DAC section of the E10 wouldn't be as good as the BitHead, but I think a lot of the experience should still apply.
Have to agree with Papander to an extent; as far as an amp/DAC is concerned, it's not like you will hear different music. I can definitely see that many people will not even notice any difference in sound quality between a decent integrated sound card headphone out and the E10, which has a pretty good reputation. That said, if the headphone out on your laptop is utter crap, you may notice a big difference; I nearly regurgitated when I heard the headphone out on my brother's laptop, but the one on my desktop is fine, honestly, and only subtly worse to my ears than the E10, and in no way whatsoever intolerable.
As far as the question of whether or not it's worth it goes, there are other differences besides volume. From my E10, the biggest improvement I saw was overall depth; what I mean by that is that the sound just sounded fuller and more realistic. But it is a subtle difference. It's also a little convenient to be able to control the volume that goes to my headphones with a little physical knob that's sitting right beside me than having to notch down the volume settings on the computer. I bought my E10 for little more than $80, and I don't regret it.
I'd say an amp/DAC would be worth it if you definitely feel that the sound you're getting is unsatisfactory; otherwise, you may be better off saving that money.
I don't have any experience with the HD558 so I can't speak on that, but I can say that the E10 handles my Fostex T50RP pretty well, though maybe a hair weak on the low end (which is fine for me, 'cause I'm a complete midrange-head ).
And yeah, the player's EQ won't be bypassed by the DAC; anything handled at the digital level within the OS (such as player EQ, system volume, etc.) won't be affected directly by DAC.
 
Oh, and I don't think that the purpose of a headphone amp is to improve the audio quality of a headphone, but more like make sure the signal actually gets to the headphone as cleanly as possible. The signal delivered to a headphone is analog, so that leaves room for degradation and loss to occur, especially if there's not enough power driving the signal, so the headphone amp's role is to prevent any losses. Remember that the very best headphone amp is one that you can't hear.

 

[drewvoros]

Hmmm... interesting points, as well as contrary to what I would have expected. Answers like: Huge difference! Huge improvement! Definitely jump in!
 
Well, I understand that amps are definitely needed for higher impedance headphones just to hear them at listenable levels, however it seems from what I've read (I guess especially on retailer sites like HeadRoom) that even on lower impedance headphones they do make a significant difference when listening out of a laptop (macbook pro) or ipod (my listening stations). For reference my Shure 440s have an impedance of 44ohms and the new Sennheisers I'll be receiving shortly will be at 50ohms.
 
Thanks for the input and letting me know about EQ not being bypassed by an external DAC.
 
Hmmm... still torn. I guess I won't be using anything along the lines of a 250 or 600ohm headphone but I'm still intrigued.

 
How do you all think an Apple macbook pro onboard amp and DAC compare relative to an entry level amp/DAC. And in that case an ipod onboard amp and DAC?

 

[Papander]

As far as I know Apple products seem to have pretty good built-in DACs in them. Not long ago someone made a thread about Fiio E11 making 0 difference to his sound. He was using Iphone 4S and Beyer DT770 Pro 250ohm.

 

[skyline315]

I recently purchased an Audinst HUD-mx1 ($179) to go with my Shure 940s and DT880 250 ohms.
 
Personally, I find the difference between my on-board sound via laptop and the new dac/amp to be pretty considerable.  The most noticeable improvements have been an increase in smoothness of sound (a.k.a. less grain) and better instrument separation.  I haven't regretted the $179 for a second.  Having said that, I had originally planned to eventually upgrade to a more expensive dac/amp combo (schiit bifrost and asgard), but at this point I really have no desire to go down that road.  We'll see if I change my mind in a few months, but I can't imagine any increase in sound quality at this point being worth $500+ to my wallet.  
 
And then, you have my wife, who can't for the life of her tell a difference between apple earbuds and my $300 headphones.  It's all relative...
 
My recommendation would be to dip your toe in the water with a well-regarded but inexpensive dac/amp like you've been considering.  If it works for you, awesome, and if not then you should be able to resell it without taking a HUGE loss to your wallet.  Should be worth the peace of mind if nothing else.

 

[drewvoros]

Nice point, perhaps I should just try it out for peace of mind.
 
Question for you... is the considerable difference more noticeable on your DT880s or Shure 940s. Like I said I own the Shure 440s with a similar impedance to the 940s (around the 40s ohm). I use my macbook pro and itunes and find my 440s at an adequate listening volume at about 35-40% volume through the laptop. I'm not really one to blast cans sitting on my head... need that hearing when I'm older.

 
Quote:

I recently purchased an Audinst HUD-mx1 ($179) to go with my Shure 940s and DT880 250 ohms.
 
Personally, I find the difference between my on-board sound via laptop and the new dac/amp to be pretty considerable.  The most noticeable improvements have been an increase in smoothness of sound (a.k.a. less grain) and better instrument separation.  I haven't regretted the $179 for a second.  Having said that, I had originally planned to eventually upgrade to a more expensive dac/amp combo (schiit bifrost and asgard), but at this point I really have no desire to go down that road.  We'll see if I change my mind in a few months, but I can't imagine any increase in sound quality at this point being worth $500+ to my wallet.  
 
And then, you have my wife, who can't for the life of her tell a difference between apple earbuds and my $300 headphones.  It's all relative...
 
My recommendation would be to dip your toe in the water with a well-regarded but inexpensive dac/amp like you've been considering.  If it works for you, awesome, and if not then you should be able to resell it without taking a HUGE loss to your wallet.  Should be worth the peace of mind if nothing else.

 

 

[skyline315]

Quote:

Nice point, perhaps I should just try it out for peace of mind.
 
Question for you... is the considerable difference more noticeable on your DT880s or Shure 940s. Like I said I own the Shure 440s with a similar impedance to the 940s (around the 40s ohm). I use my macbook pro and itunes and find my 440s at an adequate listening volume at about 35-40% volume through the laptop. I'm not really one to blast cans sitting on my head... need that hearing when I'm older.

 


 

 
The improvement was noticeable in both.  Volume really wasn't an issue for me with either headphone, although it's nice to have a little more headroom in the volume department now.
 
That said, I don't know how well your particular headphones scale up...some headphones benefit more from amping than others, of course.
 

 
 

 

[drewvoros]

Thanks again for your input skyline.
 
I may, as you said, just have to try it out... for peace of mind.