New tube warmup question
Nov 24, 2006 at 6:42 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 18

axky99

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Hello, everyone. I just got an used Unison Reserach Unico for my k1000. The seller install a pair of brand new Mullard 12au7 tubes into the amp. I wonder if there is break-in period for tube. Thank you advance for all of your advice and comment!!
 
Nov 24, 2006 at 6:57 PM Post #3 of 18
Hey, MRARROYO!! How's going? HAPPY THANKSGIVING!! It's nice to see you again here. In general, brand new tube recommand to have 25 hrs - 100 hrs burnin period just like other components. Wlll it have an significant change or just noticeble change after burnin? At the beginning, is its performance not stable, correct?
 
Nov 24, 2006 at 7:01 PM Post #4 of 18
Tubes are changing during the time of their lives, but much more stable after use for 100 hours. I think there may not be break-in period for tubes. People define "break-in" something that performs better than original after use for some time. Some tubes could test worse or sound worse after hours of use or break-in and then keep working in that state until they wear out. There are also some tubes test better and sound better after that.

PS: there are "warm up" for all tubes.
 
Nov 24, 2006 at 7:09 PM Post #5 of 18
are there any websites or articles describe or review about all or most of tubes in the market? I will do tube rolling in near future(MAYBE). Before I put my hand on tube rolling, I need to know what those tubes sound like in order to find the "right" pair for my music preference.
 
Nov 24, 2006 at 7:19 PM Post #6 of 18
Go to ebay and search by the word "12au7" times a day and watch all sales for weeks. logically, the better model the more expansive
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Nov 24, 2006 at 7:24 PM Post #7 of 18
Now that I re-read the question I should add that in addition to the break-in there is the general warm-up of the tubes and the amp. Before doing any critical listening or comparing two amps I would let them warm up under load for at least 30 minutes maybe as much as 1 hour.

This time allows all the components to reach their normal operating temperature.
 
Nov 24, 2006 at 7:30 PM Post #9 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by edisonwu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Go to ebay and search by the word "12au7" times a day and watch all sales for weeks. logically, the better model the more expansive
blink.gif



Maybe you could tell me what Mullard CV4003/12AU7 sounds like(they are in my amp). Any model you suggest? Thank you !
 
Nov 24, 2006 at 7:32 PM Post #10 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Now that I re-read the question I should add that in addition to the break-in there is the general warm-up of the tubes and the amp. Before doing any critical listening or comparing two amps I would let them warm up under load for at least 30 minutes maybe as much as 1 hour.

This time allows all the components to reach their normal operating temperature.



Do you suggest I should turn on my CDP as turn on my amp so that both of them can be warmup for enough amount of time.
 
Nov 24, 2006 at 10:48 PM Post #11 of 18
I do not think CDP's are affected, unless they have tubes. So I would turn the amp let it warm for about 30 min, turn on the CDP for 15 min and then start listening. Of course I never due this and just turn them on and listen. I guess I do not have the patience.
 
Nov 25, 2006 at 4:14 AM Post #12 of 18
I've been told by several tube sellers that with new tubes, new production or NOS, that you should let them burn in without a signal for several hours on the first time used. There are gases in the envelope that are there to react with impurities in the vacuum. If a tube sits unused ( like on a stock shelf ) these gases can condense on the inside of the tube. The idea of this initial burn in, is to vaporize these gases again so they can do their job. The vacuum is there to eliminate anything that will allow the filaments to burn up causing tube failure. The flashing on the inside of the tube does the same thing but over a much longer period. The tube experts that have told me this said that all tubes don't need this initial burn in but the ones that do can loose as much as half their usable life. I do it for small signal tubes for about 4 hour and large power tubes (kt88,6550,el34 etc) 12 hours. I also let my tubes warm up for 30 min before applying a signal on a day to day basis.
As far as 12au7s, I like Rca cleartops, Radiotechnique, and Mullard old logo. If you haven't, read Joe's tube lore @ Audio Asylum in the faqs.
 
Nov 25, 2006 at 1:55 PM Post #13 of 18
Why does all other vintage tube cost much much more than new production tubes? What's the difference between their sounds? I found a pair of Mullard vintage 12au7 tube on Tubeworld.com, which this pair is the best tube of 12au7 available in their website and ask for $180 to $200;Thank you!
 
Nov 25, 2006 at 3:03 PM Post #14 of 18
Nov 25, 2006 at 5:19 PM Post #15 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by axky99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I found a pair of Mullard CV4003 on some websites for $200~220/pair(https://www.tubeworld.com/index_low.htm) and same pair of tubes for $40/each from other website (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/product....d=12&catid=44). Can anyone tell me why the difference is that much or what's different between these two pair. Thank you!


Vintage tube sellers come in several flavors. Some are small time guys that don't really have much stock but have a great passion for finding very rare or desirable tubes not because they can sell them for so much, but, they love tubes. You find these guys mostly from word of mouth in chat rooms or Audiogon. I think these are the best to buy from. Sometimes cheap, sometimes expensive . It depends on the cost that they paid and how hard they were to find (airline tickets, purchasing bad tubes, number of good tubes out of the lot etc). Their price is based on each tube sold.
There are big tube sellers that sell only tubes. They have a nice web site, employees, good customer service and huge tubes in stock at all times. They have the advantage over the above sellers by' economy of scale'. They buy huge lots of tubes constantly and while their rejection rate (bad tubes) is higher (their dumpsters are full of glass) they get the lots for very cheap and their profit margin is higher. Their prices are usually pretty high (what the current market will bear) but you can find exactly what you want and they stand behind their products.
There are blends of these two main types of sellers and almost all of them started as the first type.
The third type is one who's main focus is audio gear. This is where their profit comes from and many of them aren't expecting to make much off of tube sales. Their stock depend allot on which direction the came from. Did they start as tube sellers, or did they start selling gear and the market forced them to sell tubes. I have had very good luck with some of these sellers while their focus was still more on tubes. This usually changes and these guys stock becomes more and more limited. Their prices can be all over the place because they don't spend the time looking at the current going price for a tube and they don't price per individual tube. Sometimes they're just trying to phase out certain stocks to make room for more profitable gear. The customer service of these guys can be all over the place too. The nice thing about these sellers is if you find a tube from them that you like, they usually have a bunch so the price doesn't change until the stock is renewed and a new price reflects the cost of the the new stock. So, you can very often go back to them years latter and get the same tubes for the same price. Making an extra $50-100 doesn't mean much when their making $5-10k on an amp or speakers. Sell one amp or 1000 tubes=same profit. Even if the tube stock landed in their lap (no researching) that at least 990 fewer emails/phone calls/face to face. Even the biggest tube lover can't argue with that.
Sooooo,.. why the big price difference. Still with me? The $200 /pr Mullards are specific tubes. The $80/pr are a matched pair out of a lot. What year are the cheaper ones? Don't know. What is the plate structure and the getter type( super important identifying features!)? Don't ask. If you really love the tube, can you get some back up that are the exact same tube?Maybe. This isn't to say that you can't get as good a Mullard for $80/pr, you might be able to get a better one.
Buying vintage anything is never a sure thing. As they say,..
"Ya pays your money, and ya takes your chances",.. but you can narrow the odds for a price.
 

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