[pdupiano]

Hey everybody,

I've been around now for a few weeks and I've posted in several vinyl topics. Particularly about buying my first turn table. I finally bought a used from a nearby audiophile (I'm assuming he was an audiophile based on the equipment he had let alone the stunning piano that caught my eye in his den).

Its a Technics SL-Q300. I didn't have a preamp for it so I went over to my friend's house to try it on his Onkyo TX-SR707 receiver (we attached it to the phono inputs) and listened to the Beatle's Abbey Road record.

Well we took a listen and there was a lot of noise. My friend says there's noise coming from the player because when he unplugged the rca cables from the TT, the noise stopped. But I still think its because the player was not connected to a preamp and therefore the Onkyo was just amplifying everything to the point that we got a lot of noise.

I'm very VERY new to vinyl, but I would like to take a good stab at entering the vinyl world. Does anyone have any ideas about the sources of noise in a TT and what preamps you would recommend? Is it also possible to connect the TT directly to an amplifier without a preamp and still not suffer from noise?

 

[memepool]

The noise you mention, if it's like a hum, is the result of the deck not being electrically grounded. Also you need a special pre-amp for record players because the signal is only a few milivolts compared to most modern line level sources which are a few volts, so you could also be hearing the amp struggling to provide enough gain.
If it's crackling when playing a record then your records are dirty and / or your deck isn't set up properly.

You can either look out for an old Reciever 2nd hand from similar places you found the deck or get a Radioshack phonostage for about 20USD to plug into your existing amp to get you going.

Congrats on the Technics it's a place to start.

 

[nkd]

Phono amplifiers also provide equalisation, so you should never connect a turntable directly to a standard input on an amplifier, even if it can provide enough gain.

It's probably more likely that either the record is in bad condition, or there's something wrong with the cartridge. I got a lot of crackling and distortion from mine last week, then the needle fell off...

 

[pdupiano]

Thanks for the response guys. I'm gonna stop by my local radio shack to see what they have there. I'll also drop by my local audiophile store (yes I do have one, but there is no way a college student can afford most of what they have -but I try).

At the moment I've had a great experience with quality from grado headphones, does the grado quality translate over to cartridges as well? If not are there any other brands that would go well with Technics? I know I'm asking a lot, but there is a ton of info out there online about vinyl, quite a bit more than I was expecting. And the 10 page article on stereophile about setting up a player is quite intimidating. I'm hoping that I can pick up on the basics from more experienced users now and start to look towards the other details once I fully immerse myself in the vinyl world. Thanks again everybody.

 

[pdupiano]

I just remembered, the noise is more like static white noise. I didn't hear any crackles though.

 

[pdupiano]

I went out looking for a pre-amp, I couldn't find a decent one so I'm going to wait for a few ebay auctions to end. In the mean time, I rigged my technics into an old guitar amp.. and WOW there's very little noise. Its mono but man its pretty nice, I can't wait for a proper set up. You guys were def right about the pre-amp, I just didn't think a guitar amp would be this good. Then again I guess this is how pick ups work. I just wish it was stereo.

 

[memepool]

Any microphone pre-amp will work as well but like nkd says above there is also (RIAA) equalisation being applied in a phonostage so if your guitar amp has eq then turning up the bass and backing off the treble a bit is the closest you will get to how it's meant to sound, if you han't already figured this out...

A lot of people buying 2nd hand in the USA will opt for an old '70s reciever as these are very common on the used market. Look out for Marantz and any of the big Japanese manufacturers. Pioneer were also particularly good.
Or else an integrated amp from NAD or Rotel in the '80s is also a great buy as these generally have nicer than average phonostages.

 

[pdupiano]

thanks memepool, I'm currently waiting on an auction for an old NAD 1130 and some old Marantz pre-amps. I saw the specs on the NAD and the SNR is 80dB, that's pretty high compared to other pream's I've looked into. I hope that the spec sheets don't lie.

 

[memepool]

yep NAD amps from the '80s onwards always had some of the best phonostages for the money.
You can also go for the integrated amps as well as just the dedicated pre-amps. Phonostages disappeared from most major manufacturers amps as a standard fixture from the mid 1990s onwards although they've been back again in the last few years.

 

[Sherwood]

A good idea if you get serious is to pick up some basic cleaning supplies, especially if you'll be digging through crates or listening to a lot of older records. Some d4 discwash and a brush goes a long way to removing pop and crackle.

Also, Grado is not as universally respected a cartridge manufacturer as they are a headphone manufacturer. The cartridge is a good deal less important than most other components, though, so focus on the preamp first and you're on your way.

Does your technics have a small wire with a small spade-shaped connector on the end? A lot of turntables have a grounding wire separate from their RCA cables, so be sure to hook yours up to something grounded when you set it up.

 

[bigshot]

Grado makes some excellent cartridges. I have a Grado DJ cart for 78s that tracks better than any other cartridge I've tried. It's just that they don't work with Technics turntables well.

See ya
Steve

 

[Sherwood]

They also don't work well on my Rega.

 

[pdupiano]

I actually don't have a grounding cable, is there something else I can use?

 

[searchenabler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif The cartridge is a good deal less important than most other components, though, so focus on the preamp first and you're on your way.

The cartridge/stylus system is the most important part of the phono system. This will limit tracking precision and this will determine frequency response. Any decent phono preamp is going to have a FR within 1/2 a dB of another decent phono preamp. From there, it's just a matter of noise level, especially when dealing with low output MC cartridges. But the cartridges themselves can easily have radical frequency response differences from one another, and some cartridges will cause inner record groove distortion problems when combined with certain arms, etc., and some may not even track correctly on complex vinyl grooves due to the same reason. Of course, a good arm with tight bearing tolerances and consistent platter speed are also important, and making sure the compliance of the cart is a good match with the mass of the arm is important, but it all starts with the cartridge interpreting the grooves on the vinyl.

Chris