[Battou62]

Hello there, I have been lurking on these forums for a while trying to get into the audio game. I have been trying to put together a decent entry setup, but the more research I do the more I seem to get confused. So I am looking for some opinions on what would be the best setup for me.

Here is what I have to work with so far

- New 6 core PC with latest onboard audio
- Onkyo TX-SR502 Receiver near the computer
- Nuforce uDAC-2
- JVC HARX900 headphones

After reading the recent unfavorable posts about the uDAC, I began to wonder if i could improve my setup. So far I feel like the uDAC (as a DAC/amp) sounded better than just using the receiver with a digital signal being fed to it from the computer. I also tried using the uDAC as just a dac and running the signal to the reciever. I think this combination sounds better than using the uDAC as a dac/amp. Let me try to make this clearer, here are the setups I have used thusfar.

Computer -> Receiver -> Headphones
Computer -> uDAC -> Headphones
Computer -> uDAC -> Receiver -> Headphones (sounds best to me)

So which should technically be the best setup? I have been trying to avoid sound cards to eliminate any interference in the case. Does anyone have a better external recommendations? Sorry if any of this is unclear, I am new to the audio game. Has anyone tried a similar setup to mine that also experience with other dacs or the X-fi HD? Looking forward to the responses

 

[matchuk28]

the computer ->udac-->headphone should be your best setup i think
 
unless yourjvc harx900 are hard to drive the udac should be fine
 
if you dont go through udac the onboard sound cards dac is horrid and the receiver headphone jack is usually not as good so if your headphones dont need the amping i wouldnt distort the signal more
 
 

 

[Mad Max]

But he is saying that he finds that it sounds better with the uDAC feeding the Onkyo.
 
If you don't hear distortion or clipping or anything, then just relax and enjoy your rig and music.  =]
 
 
You could also go for a better standalone DAC, use the Onkyo as amp for a while, then get a better amp later while holding on to the Onkyo for some really nice passive speakers. 

 

[Battou62]

That's right, the Onkyo will eventually be moving away from the computer. I think I get better sound using the uDAC just as a dac and using the receiver to amp it. I'm very new to all this so you might wanna take it with a grain of salt. Are there any better option out there for the price? It just seems to me that there isn't a huge market for computer sound outside of the computer, I have seen the X-fi HDand the upcoming Asus external usb dac amp as an interesting options.

 

[matchuk28]

 maybe your udac headphone out is not driving the jvcs to its potential in theory you just want to distort as little as possible while having enuff power for the headphones however some people do like to color
 
if your onkyo is eventually moving away you will eventually need a new amp so its either you can an all in one computer package (such as the essence stx which has a nice dac / amp / rca output) or a seperate head amp to connect to your udac or usb dac/amps (yeah the new asus one looks so nice might want to wait for that)
 
but there are plenty of options for usb dac/amps and from my experience i like them most because you can move them around your house

 

[Battou62]

This is basically what I have been learning. At first I really liked how the uDAC sounded, it was up front and dynamic. When I used it as a dac to feed my Onkyo I felt the sound was not as colored and it sounded cleaner. My ears are still learning to pick up the subtle differences.

 

[matchuk28]

dont waste your receiver imo instead of spending so much on a dac/amp u could get a decent one for 200 then buy a pair of bookselves to use with your receiver then u connect both to the external dac amp or something like stx so u can eaisly switch when ur fatigued from headphones

 

[shrimants]

I am also relatively new to the whole computer audio scene. I currently just have my headphones (bose on ear's) plugged into the headphone jack. I have had some major problems with my onboard sound card. First, instead of grounding correctly, it was treating the ground as its own voltage source. Basically that made it so that "i could hear it when my computer was idling". I fixed that by isolating the sound card with electrical tape.
 
Next problem is that it doesnt reproduce frequencies below about 30 hz. instead, the tone drops out and is replaced with an airy, whistly, warbling sound like weeooeeeooeeooeeooeeooeeoo. The only way I can describe it is, if you could hear a subwoofer's vent but not the actual bass, thats the sound.
 
I'm looking into a USB DAC, and i've been looking at USB sound cards for a while but apparently that is not the correct name for it. I guess what I need is an amp that accepts USB audio input. I dont know what to search for, what to aim for, or anything.
 
My future plans are to have an actual dedicated sound card in an actual computer tower, but I wont even bother with that if Im going to be pumping all audio through USB to an amp instead. I also plan on getting a nice set of in ear monitors for casual listening (aiming for monster turbines), followed by a nice over-ear set like AKG 701 or some really nice set of cans. Finally, my last purchase would be a set of real IEM's, such as ultimate ears reference or 1964t's.
 
I also may choose to bypass all that and go the speaker setup route instead (it honestly depends on how my life turns out and what kind of place i end up living in. college years are fickle). Right now I have audioengine A5's, and I might use them in a home theater setup or some such. It depends on if I get into gaming at all. If I get a console or computer capable of multichannel surround output from video games, that would be great but afaik everything is in stereo or upconverted via dolby prologic 2....
 
guidance is appreciated.

 

[Mad Max]

The Audio-gd FUN with an ADA4627-1B opamp module in place of the stock OPA2134(?) + a modded Fostex T50RP will give you the best soundstage short of getting a really high-end rig costing you four figures.  You won't even need surround effect DSPs.  You might rethink your desire for multichannel. 

 

[shrimants]

Quote:

The Audio-gd FUN with an ADA4627-1B opamp module in place of the stock OPA2134(?) + a modded Fostex T50RP will give you the best soundstage short of getting a really high-end rig costing you four figures.  You won't even need surround effect DSPs.  You might rethink your desire for multichannel. 

This is exactly why it was up in the air, actually. the current craptastic bose on-ears were great for the casual listening I was doing before, but now i'm being extremely critical with my music. I'm changing it all into flac and whatnot, and I cant help but notice that the sound stage on the bose is abysmal, and the bass, while well balanced, is completely centered a couple centimeters short of dead center of my head. And the bad part is that it never changes. Sure, it can go real wide and everything, but front/back sound? forget it. I was beginning to think the only way I could get a good soundstage was to get a multidriver USB headset, but that makes no sense because at the end of the day we all hear in stereo. Thus, the stereo I have must just not be good enough to deliver a proper sound stage....
 
I was thinking of building myself an amp that had USB input and could output via 3.5mm or RCA. what say you? should I try for that or just buy a DAC? and what IEM and (eventually) On ear should I be looking at for a future purchase for a giant sound stage?

 

[Mad Max]

USB input is for DACs.  If you can build an amp, a couple of other guys tell me it is better value to buy a DAC and build your own amp.
 
I'd recommend TripleFi 10 for a gamer as far as IEMs.  It is great for music as well.  Though there are several headphones with large soundstage for gaming, some, like the often recommended ATH-AD700/AD900 have the imaging ability to make it worthwhile but I've discovered that T50RP massacres them in that department while being only a bit smaller in size and is around their price point.  I use a Compass DAC, the FUN's predecessor, and soundstage is one of its fortes, with the FUN being even better, hence why I recommend it.  If you go DIY, then you have even better options out there within your grasp as far as amps.  Not too familiar with mid- and hi-fi DACs and which do soundstage better.  I haven't built any stuff myself aside from cables, opamp modules, and a little tweaking of my M-Stage amp.
 
You should poke around the DIY and Dedicated Source Components forums.

 

[shrimants]

I will do that. I am in a linear analog circuits class and we are just learning how op amps work. That is what got me really interested, especially the quest for the ideal op amp even though it is physically impossible for that to exist. dont ask me why, I havent read that far yet
 
So I guess what I will do is see if I can save up for all of that stuff. Instead of buying monster turbines, I might just go with the triple fi 10's, as everyone and their mother recommends it and I will not need to purchase a custom IEM for quite some time then. I am only afraid they will not provide as much bass as I like... I really do love me some bass, though not the ridiculous pounding crap that is in rap music. I mean like radiohead's bass lines. or pink floyd's stuff.
 
Where do I buy the FUN and all these other extremely foreign components and whatnot? Amazon has long since been my goto but I am not finding a lot of these items on this forum in their selection....

 

[Mad Max]

Audio-gd has their website, google it.  ADA4627-1B can be ordered as free samples from ADI (and pretty much as good as opamps get in my experience, along with OPA827).  Fostex T50RP is available now and then from various places.  Google is your bestest best friend when on the internetz.  =D
 
LOL, TF10 has a rather ridiculous imaging ability for a mere earphone.  Bass is real tight, fast and not over-abundant but never lacking.  Very clean, clear, and fluid overall with very well balanced, laid-back sound.  Not as transparent and bassy as my Monster Turbine Pro Copper, but they will rub your face in compression artifacts and other imperfections nearly as much.

 

[Battou62]

(Takes back thread)
 
It's hard for me to understand why dacs are so expensive. Is using usb as an input better than using digital coax or optical?

 

[windcar]

Quote:

(Takes back thread)
 
It's hard for me to understand why dacs are so expensive. Is using usb as an input better than using digital coax or optical?

because many high end DAC are just ... snake oil in a way. They are just a combination of some good DAC with some amp. As long as your DAC does not distort the sound, has very good spec and you have a class A amplifier to go along with it, it will do the job of any high end DAC.
And also there are crap DAC selling at premium price like those NON-oversampling DAC which distort the sound too much but apparently many audiophiles like it.