New Sound Card/USB DAC (AV-701?)
May 10, 2007 at 9:29 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 20

Aar0n

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I'm planning to finally upgrade my audio setup with some ATH-A900s, but I'm not sure what I should do, in terms of my source. I'm currently using extremely lackluster onboard sound, so I'm looking for something to do my future headphones justice. I know the Chaintech-AV710 is a good deal, but I'd feel like I was cheating myself by only spending $20. I either want some sound card or USB DAC in the $50-$100 range, or strong reassurance that the AV-701 is adequate. Can anyone give me a suggestion or two?
 
May 11, 2007 at 6:02 PM Post #3 of 20
Your sig says "amp soon", but sometimes sigs are not up-to-date. Did you already pick up a headamp to drive the AT's? That's what I'd buy first and see what improvement it makes in your sound.

If you already have any sort of headamp, the AV710>headamp>AT's will probably amaze you for that $20.

However, I don't think the AV710 outputs can drive the AT's very well directly, and you would likely wonder why anyone says it's so much better than onboard sound.

The advantage of the AV710 is that later on you can use its TOSLINK output to drive about any DAC (or DAC/headamp combination) with a bit-perfect data stream.
 
May 11, 2007 at 6:07 PM Post #5 of 20
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I think I'll be ordering the ATs and the AV-701 in the next few days, but at only 40 ohms, I don't think an amp is a concern for the A900s.
 
May 11, 2007 at 7:55 PM Post #6 of 20
Grados are only 32 Ohms IIRC yet the amp does wonders for them, it's more than just volume
smily_headphones1.gif
AV710 only does line out, there's no pre-amping of any kind. Makes it great for head-fi use, but you'll probably want at least a CMOY or something like that.

You won't be sorry with the AV710, it's a great sounding card. I bet if it were $50 people would still recommend it, but at $20 it's a no brainer.

--Illah
 
May 12, 2007 at 4:57 AM Post #8 of 20
I love my AV710 with my CMoy amp
 
May 12, 2007 at 8:19 AM Post #9 of 20
The lower the impedance, the worse it is for unamped AV710.
 
May 12, 2007 at 11:54 PM Post #12 of 20
^ No. Google "damping ratio".

AV710 cannot properly drive audio-technicas. I tried.

EDIT:

Quote:

why would an iPod be able to do a good job and not a PC?


Because Ipod has an amplified headphone out (transistor-based amplification IIRC) and AV710 has a pure line out.
 
May 13, 2007 at 12:10 AM Post #13 of 20
Ahriman4891;2950916 said:
^ No. Google "damping ratio".

OK I need to study that a bit, equations aren't my strong suit these days.

Seems like you have studied it, I saw a couple of other responses by you as to this subject.

What exactly is the AV710 putting out of the line output power wise?
 
May 13, 2007 at 12:49 AM Post #14 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jammin72 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
OK I need to study that a bit, equations aren't my strong suit these days.

Seems like you have studied it, I saw a couple of other responses by you as to this subject.

What exactly is the AV710 putting out of the line output power wise?



I could not find specs, but its at least 2x louder than my iRiver IFP-395T. The IFP-395T outputs 12mW+12mW @ 16 ohms.
 
May 13, 2007 at 1:22 AM Post #15 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jammin72 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

OK I need to study that a bit, equations aren't my strong suit these days.

Seems like you have studied it, I saw a couple of other responses by you as to this subject.

What exactly is the AV710 putting out of the line output power wise?



I only studied it as an elective
smily_headphones1.gif
but here goes.

You know those spring-loaded doors? The ones that close by themselves? Well, a door with a low damping ratio (or damping factor, as they sometimes refer to it) will swing back and forth for a while before closing (assuming there is no door stop--if there is one, it will just slam into it). A door with a high damping ratio will start closing, but as it comes to its goal (which is being shut) it will slow down precisely and close smoothly and quietly.

Well, electric waves are somewhat like the door swings. Take a look here:

http://www-math.mit.edu/daimp/DampingRatio.html

The 10, 1, 0.1, 0.01 buttons are for scaling the top graph. At the bottom, the middle slider (with green "zeta" letter) lets you control the damping ratio. Notice that as the absolute value of zeta decreases (as you move it to the right), you get more "waves" on the graph. That's more swings of the door or, in case of electric waveform, more parasite harmonics (which are 2x, 3x, and so on of your current signal frequency). A system with low damping ratio will havee very high THD (total harmonic distortions) coefficient, among other things.

How is damping ratio of our systems calculated? I am not an EE major, but basically it's the impedance of what you are driving over the impedance of your output. Now, AV710 is designed to drive line inputs. Their impedance is usu. 50 - 75 KOhm, which is incomparable to headphones. It's safe to assume that the output impedance of AV710 is fairly high--even if it's e.g. 500 Ohm, we still get a damping factor of (50K or 75K)/500 = (100 or 150) on most inputs, and that's actually a very good number. But what if our load impedance is low? E.g. we connect Audio-technica or Grado headphones to it? Well, the damping factor goes way down, probably below 1. You can see what happens to THD in the interactive demo I linked to. That doesn't mean it won't go loud--it will. AV710 drove my AT's to unlistenable volumes. But the sound was EXTREMELY "dirty", as if I plugged in a very cheap electric guitar into a very bad, semi-functioning amp and switched to "distortion" mode.EDIT: Well, OK I'm exaggerating a bit--but the sound was not clean, and it was VERY easy to hear.

I hope I didn't confuse you further. But it's always funny when people say "Grado/Audio-technica are easy to drive". They are easier to get loud, sure. They are not easy to drive properly.
 

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