[imparanoic]

This post is pretty old, but still does have relevance today and a lot of people get into trouble so i would like to necrobump a bit.

In a lot of countries (including germany), private persons are not allowed to ship products containing an Li-Ion battery.

So if you buy a ZX507 in Japan because you want it uncapped and there is a issue, you can't ship it back to Japan.

I tried ship back my Xperia Z4 back then because it had a reboot loop but the package was sent back with a sticker, that private persons are not allowed to send oversears.

This rule applies to several countries and EMS doesn't even ship to a lot of countries anyway. If you life in germany, you have to workaround by asking the proxy to send using DHL instead of EMS. Only then you can receive it but there is no way back. I tried everything, nobody is willing to ship it to japan from germany due to the battery.

So if you have a software bug in your ZX507 that causes a reboot loop, its a brick. Sony Europe won't touch it either.

if sony europe won't touch, other countries, sony may repair it, but as it's grey import, they charge more, this is the case in Hong Kong, example, battery replacement on a official HK NW-ZX507 will cost you around HK$200, but for a grey import, they may charge double that anmount at HK$450

 

[imparanoic]

I’m surprised there have been no new firmware updates in a while with added functionality. With the chip shortages and manufacturing slowdowns Sony could breath new life into this DAP while we wait for new hardware.

I’m beginning to think the ZX507 was an experiment to test out Android for a TOTL Sony DAP and see how the public responded. I don’t think they sold enough of these to warrant more money spent on software improvements. Too bad. Time will tell if this is a forgotten product.

the sucessor of NW-WM1A/Z is been leaked to sony walkman blog, yes, it uses android and has usb type c, you can see the andriod 3 onscreen icons buttons clearly on these leaks

 

[Vamp898]

I assume they wait for the new WM1Z release which will contain USB DAC and Bluetooth Receiver Mode and with the WM1Z, they most likely release an firmware update to the ZX507 bringing the same features.

I somehow doubt there will be another WM1A. I thinks its ZX507 + WM1Z in the future. I assume they were able to cut the production cost on the WM1Z and will sell it for a lower price than the old one.

In Japan, "like new" models without any signs of usage sell for roughly 1700€, that is an realistic price for the WM1Z and i hope that Sony will price the successor at around 2000€

But who knows... Sony also sells the Sony a7r IV for 4000€ and the a1 for over 7000€ even though they cost practically the same in production as the a7 that sells for less than half (street price)

It sounds harsh but Sony is (and always was) a pretty greedy company. I would have understood the 3300€ pricepoint of the WM1Z if it would have been Made in Japan. But for Made in Malaysia, that price is way over the top.

But this is just brainstorming. Maybe there will be another WM1A and the new WM1Z will be even more expensive than the current one. With Sony, nobody knows

Back then the NW-WM1Z was released, there was only the ZX2.

So the NW-WM1Z was a new and the best premium product Sony had. And because it was so expensive, they released the WM1A for 1200€

But because the WM1A was still very expensive, the released the ZX300 for 700€

But now there is the DMP-Z1 and the ZX500 increased from 700€ to 830€

So for me, it sounds like the most sane solution to release a cheaper WM1Z at around 1500-2000€

But all the customers who recently bought the WM1Z for 3300€ will going to be really pissed when the newer/better device is going to be cheaper... but they increased the price from ZX300 to ZX500 so maybe they will do the same with the new WM1Z too.

There is only hope left.

 

[mainguy]

I assume they wait for the new WM1Z release which will contain USB DAC and Bluetooth Receiver Mode and with the WM1Z, they most likely release an firmware update to the ZX507 bringing the same features.

I somehow doubt there will be another WM1A. I thinks its ZX507 + WM1Z in the future. I assume they were able to cut the production cost on the WM1Z and will sell it for a lower price than the old one.

In Japan, "like new" models without any signs of usage sell for roughly 1700€, that is an realistic price for the WM1Z and i hope that Sony will price the successor at around 2000€

But who knows... Sony also sells the Sony a7r IV for 4000€ and the a1 for over 7000€ even though they cost practically the same in production as the a7 that sells for less than half (street price)

It sounds harsh but Sony is (and always was) a pretty greedy company. I would have understood the 3300€ pricepoint of the WM1Z if it too.

There is only hope left.

To understand the market you need to look at competitors, not consider Sony in isolation.
Remember when the WM1Z launched the AK380 was selling for over $3000. And the WM1Z was a much, much better player, I haven't seen anyone who's tried both say otherwise. Heck, there's even WM1a vs AK380 comparisons and people prefer the former.

So if competitors are still producing £3000 DAPs, which they are, Sony will absolutely go for them, and most likely supersede them again. They could easily take the top end DAP market imo, AK don't have anything on Sony. They just release more products and cover more use cases with them.

Very low chance they'll launch a $2000 player. As soon as you're at the silly money range you're dealing with people who want the best and you can charge for it.

As for a WM1a successor, hard to say. I don't see why not, it'd be interesting to see numbers on WM1z vs WM1a sales as that'll likely be the determining factor.

 

[Vamp898]

To understand the market you need to look at competitors, not consider Sony in isolation.
Remember when the WM1Z launched the AK380 was selling for over $3000. And the WM1Z was a much, much better player, I haven't seen anyone who's tried both say otherwise. Heck, there's even WM1a vs AK380 comparisons and people prefer the former.

So if competitors are still producing £3000 DAPs, which they are, Sony will absolutely go for them, and most likely supersede them again. They could easily take the top end DAP market imo, AK don't have anything on Sony. They just release more products and cover more use cases with them.

Very low chance they'll launch a $2000 player. As soon as you're at the silly money range you're dealing with people who want the best and you can charge for it.

As for a WM1a successor, hard to say. I don't see why not, it'd be interesting to see numbers on WM1z vs WM1a sales as that'll likely be the determining factor.

Most likely you're right. I've seen serial numbers larger than 60'000 on some WM1Z, so Sony must have at least made 100 Million revenue with them...

Why not take money when people give it to you... you are absolutely right...

 

[ac67]

New firmware released.
https://www.sony-asia.com/electroni...s-nw-nwz-zx-series/nw-zx507/software/00268356

 

[Vamp898]

New firmware released.
https://www.sony-asia.com/electroni...s-nw-nwz-zx-series/nw-zx507/software/00268356

> Provides Security Updates (The security level displayed in the Settings menu will be as of September 2021)

 

[myromeo]

> Provides Security Updates (The security level displayed in the Settings menu will be as of September 2021)

Agree. Boo. Give us something, global android audio bypass for third party apps would be my top request. I know many want USB DAC mode also. Also be nice in U.K. kill the EU volume limit, we left the EU but I’m not sure what U.K. rules are?

 

[Tsiklon]

Agree. Boo. Give us something, global android audio bypass for third party apps would be my top request. I know many want USB DAC mode also. Also be nice in U.K. kill the EU volume limit, we left the EU but I’m not sure what U.K. rules are?

I doubt they will ever ship a UK specific sku, economy of scale just won’t make it worth it from a business sense, think of the support infrastructure and the sales channels that would need to be changed to support that.

That said; I saw the repair document for this system, there’s a specific flag that’s set at repair time for these EU models when the system board is replaced in the 507. So it shouldn’t be too much of a faff for the support team. But this flag is set before the system leaves the factory

 

[MrWalkman]

I doubt they will ever ship a UK specific sku, economy of scale just won’t make it worth it from a business sense, think of the support infrastructure and the sales channels that would need to be changed to support that.

That said; I saw the repair document for this system, there’s a specific flag that’s set at repair time for these EU models when the system board is replaced in the 507. So it shouldn’t be too much of a faff for the support team. But this flag is set before the system leaves the factory

They could remove the volume limit for the EU region that these DAPs are on via a firmware update if they wanted to.

But I'm not sure if there is a specific region for UK, as otherwise, other non-UK DAPs would get the volume limit removed.

In any case, they could find a way to do it. It's just that it requires some additional work, which they might not want to spend money on.

Also, UK might still have that "law", even though it's out of EU.

 

[Vamp898]

Agree. Boo. Give us something, global android audio bypass for third party apps would be my top request. I know many want USB DAC mode also. Also be nice in U.K. kill the EU volume limit, we left the EU but I’m not sure what U.K. rules are?

USB DAC and Bluetooth Receiver Modes are my top requests or at minimum, an remote control app.

I can control my AV-Receiver, my Headphone, pretty much everything from Sony with the Music Center App, but not the Walkman.

When im outside, i don't want to constantly pull out two devices. I want the walkman to sit in my pocket and either play music via my phone or at least be able to control it via the phone.

ZX300 could do that, WM1A and WM1Z can do it, prertty much every other DAP can do it. Why is the inventor of LDAC the only one with an DAP without LDAC Bluetooth Receiver mode? common!

I doubt companies like FiiO have more money for R&D than Sony, why could they do it with Sonys Technologies?

 

[MrWalkman]

ZX300 could do that, WM1A and WM1Z can do it, prertty much every other DAP can do it. Why is the inventor of LDAC the only one with an DAP without LDAC Bluetooth Receiver mode? common!

It's probably some kind of part of their plan.

A30 didn't receive any more updates, so it doesn't have BT Receiver or USB DAC mode, and it also doesn't support aptX HD when connecting the player to BT headphones. A40 has aptX HD support, USB DAC mode, but no BT Receiver mode. Installing the last custom firmware (based on the WM1A/Z firmware) adds those missing functions to these players, and they work perfectly!

So there has to be a reason why they didn't add these functions - they probably wanted us to buy their newer players (A40/A50). Having this in mind, it makes sense that they would have these functions on their next Android DAP.

 

[nanaholic]

Most likely you're right. I've seen serial numbers larger than 60'000 on some WM1Z, so Sony must have at least made 100 Million revenue with them...

Why not take money when people give it to you... you are absolutely right...

They actually don't make that much money.

What people keep forgetting is Sony don't use off the shelf parts for their devices, their R&D cost is FAR higher than any other DAP makers which just buys AKM chips designed to be sold in lots of millions to dozens if not hundreds of OEM makers, which just redo the PCB layout yearly and it's a "new DAP design". Sony makes their own chips for their own internal use, they don't release a new line of devices until they fabricate a completely new S-Master chip from scratch and eats all the cost themselves, it's a completely different ball game for Sony.

It's not that Sony is greedy, it's that they are unique and no one else has the same business model as they do, and that's what you are paying for.

 

[Bernardo Cabral]

Agree. Boo. Give us something, global android audio bypass for third party apps would be my top request. I know many want USB DAC mode also. Also be nice in U.K. kill the EU volume limit, we left the EU but I’m not sure what U.K. rules are?

Ever wondered if the limit was an idea from someone in the uk?

 

[Vamp898]

They actually don't make that much money.

What people keep forgetting is Sony don't use off the shelf parts for their devices, their R&D cost is FAR higher than any other DAP makers which just buys AKM chips designed to be sold in lots of millions to dozens if not hundreds of OEM makers, which just redo the PCB layout yearly and it's a "new DAP design". Sony makes their own chips for their own internal use, they don't release a new line of devices until they fabricate a completely new S-Master chip from scratch and eats all the cost themselves, it's a completely different ball game for Sony.

It's not that Sony is greedy, it's that they are unique and no one else has the same business model as they do, and that's what you are paying for.

It is that Sony is greedy, absolutely.

The WM1Z didn't took 20 years of development lol. AKM does have the bigger R&D Team and puts much more money into R&D than Sony and still sell their DAC sell for 40~50€. Knowles sells their Balanced Armature drivers for around 2€ each. You could build your own High-End Custom IEM with the best Knowles drivers for less than 30€ production cost (and Knowles includes their R&D cost in their product prices).

I think you have absolutely no clue about component prices in the audio industry. They are low, extremely low.

Of course they are selling much higher numbers because a lot of companies buy their products, but the difference is not that biig.

I know from a first hand information from a Sony employee that they could easily have sold the WM1Z for less than 1500€ and still make revenue with it.

They sell it for 3300€ because people pay 3300€ for it, simple as that.

The Sony a7R IV costs around 600€ in production and sells for 4000€. Do you really think the R&D of the Sony a7R IV (which is just a minor improvement over the a7R II and a7R III, so very low R&D) was that high, that they need to sell it 3400€ highger than the production cost? Common!

If Sonys R&D Team really is that expensive, they have the worst and most uneffective R&D department of any company. So basically i am paying for slow and incompetent people? lol no, Sony is just greedy, always was and always will be.

The Sony a99 took way more R&D and production cost (Made in Japan) than the much simpler, easier to build Made in Taiwan a7 and still they sold for the same price. Sony was selling the camera that took more R&D and more money to produce for the exact same price than the Camera that used the exact same technology (so almost no R&D) and was produced for less than 1/4 of the cost. Explain that!

SIGMA buys the Sensor from the Made in Thailand 4000€ a7r IV from Sony and sell their Made in Japan SIGMA fp L using that Sensor for 2400€ and make revenue with that. And Sony makes revenue with selling the Sensor to SIGMA.

The Made in Japan 39 Megapixel SIGMA sd Quattro which uses SIGMAs Foveon Sensor (They develop their own Image Sensor, the most complex one in the world and only use it themself in small quantities. So the most expensive Image Sensor in the World) sells for 800€ while the Made in China Sony a6600 which uses the 24 Megapixel Sensor Sony uses since roughly 10 years (with minor improvements) sells for 1600€

Don't tell me that the R&D and the unique business Modell of Sony (largest Sensor Maker in the World, pretty much Every Smartphone and most Cameras use Sony Sensors) is the reason why the a6600 costs 1600€ and the SIGMA sd Quattro costs 800€ even though they do not sell any part to any other company.

Same with SIGMA lenses. All Made in Japan, highest R&D in the camera business and still SIGMA lenses sell for 1/2 price of Sonys Made in Taiwan and China lenses while providing the same or better image quality.

Sony is fu**ing greedy, they have been 10 years ago and they haven't changed. But they are right. People are throwing their Money at them as hard as they can, why should they be stupid and not take it?

They re-branded(!!!) an (back then) 15 year old 35mm F1.4 Minolta lense that sold for around 500€ as an Sony G Lense and sold it for 1800€

1300€ price increase for a re-branding? That must have been one hell of a expensive rebranding process.

It is nice that you defend Sony, but as someone who was a Sony photographer for years and was tired of constantly getting cheated by the company i have been loyal to left marks.

When SIGMA released the SIGMA SD1 for 7500€ they later optimized and streamlined the production and re-released the SD1 with identical specs for 2100€. And everyone who bought the SD1 for the original price got the difference back in form of a voucher they could use to buy lenses at SIGMA. That is how you deal with high R&D, not selling the product for 5 years straight and make more than 100 Million € of revenue with it.