[Sweet Spot]

I'd also like it to be capable of doing a good job with 5 or 6.1 processing for movies. I'm currently using an Onkyo TX-SV515, and it's alright but the truth is, that I've had a pair of Energy C3's sitting in my studio (on stands) for months now,(and I'm about $150 away from my Energy CR3 rears) and I absolutely refuse to hook them up to my Onkyo, because I've had problems with it in that my currently used speakers (rat shack optimus brand) "pop" in and out from time to time.

i used to get this "Protection" message on my Onkyo, when I first started noticing that either the right or left speaker would go out. I'd have to crank the volume pretty much all the way up to get the sound back on again...Through the years it just got worse, and from time to time, still does it. So as you can probably understand, I don't want to hook my C3's up to it just in case.

So it's time for a new receiver. I have a pretty decent DVD player, (Toshiba SD3900) and I enjoy watching movies from time to time. But I mainly love listening to my Jazz, classical and blues , and would like to do so with a new and very "musical" receiver. I was originally going to buy the Outlaw Audio 950/7100 combo, but recently I've had a change of heart. I figure that if I'm going to do seperates, I'd like to save up much more money and REALLY do it up ya know ?

So this made me figure that I should stay within the $1000-$1200 price range. I've auditioned Marantz and I'm pretty sure NAD stuff at where I bought my Energy's, but my memory is all washy. Recently, I've read alot about NAD's quality control/build quality issues, and I'm a bit turned off by them at the moment.

Finally for the question (I know...whew !):

Has anyone here had experience with the Energy C series, and if so, in your experience, what receiver, has sounded best with them IYO ? OR, if no one has any real experience with the Energy's, which receiver IYO offers the most "musical" experience with 2 channel stereo listening, and offers great build and perhaps even diversity/options ? Also, I want something that offers power, not some whimpy digital processor that fakes it.

Nothing used. And if possible, something that isn't only available on the net. Hassles are not my thing.

Thanks much
S.S.

 

[bundee1]

Do a search over on AudioAsylum in the amps forum for the PAnasonic XA-45. Supposedly the best receiver under
1k.

 

[Sweet Spot]

Wierd, thanks Bundee...Someone in another forum had made that suggestion and I basically said that I've not liked Panasonic stuff in the past. And I noticed that the amps are all digital...not something that rings power or good 2 channel stereo to me. And not to sound ignorant, but I can't imagine a $300 Panasonic outclassing an $800-$1000 HK Marantz or NAD ?

I'm currently giving thought to the HK AVR 630 and the AVR 7200 because of an opinion that the HK sounds as close to a NAD as a receiver can. This comming from a Canadian A/V salesman who has nothing to gain by telling me this. He's also said good things about some NAD's in my price range, but I'm still iffy about the build quality, so naturally the HK would be a good second choice.

Still all speculation though, until I go and audition stuff myself.

 

[Music Fanatic]

Digital amplification is amazing -- cheap and not hot and good. But the Panasonic has quite a few D/A and A/D conversions. You've got a huge range of good choices in your price range, so happy hunting.

 

[lini]

Sweet Spot: If you're worried about quality, going HK might not be so advisable - 3 of 3 owners of recent HK ht receivers I know experienced defects on their units.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Sweet Spot]

Yeah, I hear ya Lini...thanks. This is such a frustrating endeavor...everywhere you turn, there's a pitfall. No matter what brand I've looked at as far as opinions and advice goes, all of them have quirks, bugs, defects, and seems like they're all linked to "bad batches". It seems to never end. Yeah, I've heard of problems with Marantz, NAD and HK receivers all experiencing "drop outs" and various other things associated with their newer DSP chips etc...

I may just wind up sticking with what I originally wanted, which is the Outlaw Audo 950 pre and one of their amps as well. I hear their CS is truely outstanding, and in this day and age, that's a much needed/desired quality in any company.

I was also considering going for a Rotel Receiver, but at their prices, I'm thinking that the seperate Outlaw stuff might be a wiser choice. All I need is someone who'se familiar with both to give me their opinions on them. What kills me even more, is that I've read people's posts at the Outlaw forums, and even though the 950/7100 combo is supposed to be fantastic, I still see people complaining about wanting better 2 channel stereo listening, so they go and buy a seperate tube pre amp and run it with the amp with their transports ! I dunno, just seems odd that one would dish out $1600 and still have to invest a few hundred extra for 2 channel listening. That would piss me off. I mean, there's got to be a receiver out there with good enough DAC's in order to achieve sublime analogue stereo output...no ?

Man...I just want to hook up my Energy's. *sigh*

 

[bootman]

Have you checked out any of the Denon models?

markl raves about his.
(I think he has an AVR-5800)
markl, care to jump in?

 

[Sweet Spot]

Bootman...yeah, of course. I've gone through the gammut of receivers out there. The first thing I look for, is to see if a receiver is good for my speakers. (too bright, too dark etc...)

But what I've been noticing the most, is that for my needs, I may just need to buy a seperate pre amp no matter what I do. My first love is music. DVD watching is of course something I want to do, but not at the price of sacrificing wonderful 2 channel analogue stereo enjoyment.

With this in mind, it would seem to me, that choosing a receiver for compression decodings and video playback is not that big a deal and shouldn't be so hard. Just a matter of which receiver has the newest bells and whistles right ? So the kick I'm on today is this:

1) Buy a decent processor to do DVD's/surround sound. Perhaps the suggested Panasonic AS XR 45.

2) Buy a seperate 2 channel pre (perhaps tube for warmth..may sound nice with my Energy C 3's)

3) HOPE that which ever receiver I bought has enough power to push the 2 channel preamp, so that I don't have to buy a seperate AMP. (Or am I missing something in the equation here ?)

Thoughts ? Suggestions ? And while on the subject, what's the difference between HT pass through and/or unity gain ?

 

[soundboy]

I posted this thread on the Panasonic XR25/XR45 receivers here at head-fi, but no one responded. There are 2 VERY LONG links to actual owners' experience with them.

Also, over at hometheaterforum.com, I posted a couple of threads (containing more links) on these Panasonic receivers as well.

I auditioned the XR25 at Circuit City and it is very impressive sounding. Based upon reactions from above threads, the detachable power cord needs to be replaced with an after-market PC as the first tweak. When a CD/DVD player/transport is plugged into the Panasonic via its digital inputs, the signal remains digital until the speaker output; no digital>>analog or anlog >>digital conversions.

Look beyond the brand name and the technology, not to mention the dimensions and weight, of these receivers.

BTW, Panasonic announced upgraded XR70 receiver at CES 2004. Do a search over at the AMP/RECEIVER section of audioasylum.com....I posted links to photos there.

 

[Sweet Spot]

Thank you Soundboy...and wholy crap, you weren't kidding...those are some long ass threads ! My head is spinning right now ! So, to the bottom of it all, my understanding is that the XR 45 is a nice unit for the price. But some of the more discerning listeners agreed with each other that even though this is so, they wouldn't use it for 2 channel music listening over extended periods of time, but rather, that its strongest suit is in DVD/video playback. Another words, great for HT, but not quite audio Nirvana where music is concerned. Then there's the "higher frequency" disappointment issue, and even more the bass crossover at 100 Hz. Of course an external sub will solve this...

Then...there's the crappy binding posts used ONLY for the front L/R and as for the rest of the speakers, they get even less treatment, with the implamentation of cheap spring things to hold your speaker wire. For $300, it is indeed a great deal from what many have said, as far as sound quality goes, but I think that I have the right to WANT 2 channel audio nirvana.

So I'll most likely be taking the advice of a couple people who suggested :

Quote:

Consider this option. Buy a good 2 channel preamp with HT pass through or unity gain and run the front L/R channels from a receiver through it. That is essentially what I do it gives me the best of both worlds. Plus you don't have to pay a lot for a decent DD/DTS receiver to process your DVD soundtracks, and you can replace it every few years if any notable new features come to market.

The only thing that confuses me about that is, shouldn't that be "amp" rather than "pre amp" ? I thought that a pre amp was essentially the processor....Which the receiver would be in this scenario right ?

 

[soundboy]

Reading through those threads, my take on the XR25/XR45 is completely opposite of yours....vast majority of these users are using the receiver as a 2 channel amp. Hardly anyone mention the Dolby Digital/DTS or any other home theater functions of these receivers. There was even mention of using the 6 internal digital amps for either bi-amping or tri-amping a pair of stereo speakers.

As for the binding posts issue, these receivers are ultra thin devices. If you look at the back panel, you will see that there's hardly any space for binding posts all around. I believe the upcoming XR70 will be able to accomadate binding posts all around, however.

 

[bootman]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sweet Spot The only thing that confuses me about that is, shouldn't that be "amp" rather than "pre amp" ? I thought that a pre amp was essentially the processor....Which the receiver would be in this scenario right ?

Your receiver would be the preamp in this case.
You would then need a power amp.
But of course it will be a pain to use your speakers
for movie and 2ch unless your receiver can let you do this.
(but then the reciever would always be "inline" in the audio chain.)

It seems that you will save yourself some install headaches
by going the separate processor/amp route.
Most separate processors have a "direct" mode that shuts off
all processing and gives you a clean 2ch signal.

 

[Sweet Spot]

Bootman....Yeah, that brings me right back to the original combo I wanted which is the Outlaw 950/7100 pre/pro. But here's where I started getting nutty with this stuff..

While surfing the Outlaw forums, I was reading how some people still wanted MORE out of their outlaw combo as far as 2 channel listening was concerned. I got the impression that the 950 is excellent for movies, but doesn't receive as much praise for 2 channel stereo listening because the DAC's are only "pretty good" as opposed to really super. So then I saw how people were buying other pre's to compensate..or something to that effect.

Naturally this led me to more confusion. "Is it only mediocre like they say for music, or are they just typical audio nuts who can't ever be satisfied with what they've got". You know, the itchy wallet syndrome which we're all infected by..!

Problem now is, there are sooo many options that I can get caught in a potential "perhaps this is better" loop and never buy anything. Now what good would all that money be sitting in my wallet I ask you ! ? Crazyness. I guess more auditioning is in order.

Oh, and soundboy, yes, I see what you mean, but I wasn't clear..my fault. The posts I refer to, are those which were links from those I found in your original ones. There's many links within the links you gave..and some of them go to some obscure places. Point is, within them are posts from people who tend to feel the opposite way from the bulk of those who are satisfied with what this $300 "Krell Killer" can do. And although I in no way am basing by decision upon those few random remarks, what Is clear to me is how I could see myself lumped in among the masses IF I didn't already have some idea of what I was really looking for (tuned in to). I hope that makes sense, probably not.

But I really do thank you for pointing the Panny out to me. It's certainly an option worth exploring..perhaps the 70 in fact. Who knows.

 

[Sweet Spot]

Bootman, see this thread if you're interested. It's what drove me to be the insane person I am today. It's the outlaw audio discussion on why even the seperates combo still needs a seperate pre amp "inline".

Outlaw 950 processor discussion

 

[tkam]

To throw in my 2 cents in I have the sherwood newcastle r863 that I enjoy quite a bit. You may also want to check out Denon's line.