New Order - Substance. Gold Pressing = God.

[Jahn]

This 2-CD set is the first CD purchase I ever owned, back in 1987. My folks won a D-15 PCDP as a door prize, so since I loved my friend's tape of this album, I decided to get the CD. Man, that was a pricey purchase back then! But when I popped it in and listened, I was truly amazed.

Fast forward 17 years and here I find a gold pressing of this album made in Germany in 1993 (I think) on Ebay. At this point my original album is acting as coasters for my Vibrapods (they make sliding the rig around really easy!) since the sound quality is ultimate crap on the revealing cans I have (CD3K in particular). I snag this 2-CD set for five bucks and it just came today.

Ever hear of the Sennheiser veil? Well the "CD Veil" just got lifted from this awesome album. I don't know if they remastered this or it's just the gold pressing or what, but the fidelity is top notch and it actually sounds really great even through the CD3K. Emotionally it put me right back into 1987, a nervous teen getting pumped to "Bizarre Love Triangle" before asking a girl to dance to "Only You" by Yaz. Thanks, German Engineers, for putting new life into one of my favorite nostalgic albums!

Edit - the rig used is the Tushi to the SR-71 to the CD3K. I can't wait to hear this through the modded Solo!

 

[bong]

anyway, there are always a few things that bothered me about Substance, although most of the issues are unavoidable because of time constraints.

firstly, "Perfect Kiss" (missing "The") is edited, the full version is 8:45 instead of 8:02 that appears on the Substance CD. this version is missing a really cool keyboard riff, listen to near the end of "Kiss of Death" and you'll know what i mean. the strange part is that the cassette version of Substance has the full 12" 8:45 version.

second, "Hurt" is also edited. it's missing the second keyboard sequencer break, and it's much better than the first break. the full version is on the 1981-1982 EP.

third, "Shellshock" is heavily edited. the full 12" version is MUCH longer than appears on Substance. as i had never heard the 12" version before, i can't comment on it.

fourth, the 1987 version of "Confusion" isn't very good. the original 1983 12" version (finally released on CD on the Retro Box Set) is sooo much better.

fifth, the 1987 version of "Temptation" is actually very good, but i prefer the rougher, rocking 1982 12" version, also available on the 1981-1982 EP.

sixth, "Mesh" isn't the name of the song that's titled, but is actually "Cries and Whispers."

seventh, "Subculture" is also heavily edited, the version on Substance is much shorter. however, i really don't mind since this remix is gawd-awful, i won't hesitate that this is probably New Order's worst thing comitted to tape. "Subculture" on Low-Life is sooo much better.

finally, a minor thing but most people don't realize that "Procession" and "Murder" were also singles, just never released as 12" singles as all of Substance's first disc were. most people think that since it's on the second disc, it's just b-sides.

don't get my rantings wrong, i LOVE Substance, it's a must have! it's also my first New Order item, i had it on cassette for the longest time, still do.

 

[bundee1]

I think I have all of New Orders album output except the box set and the last album. Can you recommend their best recordings and best versions on CD? Any other rarities I should pick up? I really love Joy Division at Les Bains *******.

 

[Jahn]

Argh I just wrote a huge post in response and it got wiped!

Well to make it short, i ripped a copy and the CD-R doesn't sound as good, which is odd. I made comments on all of your comments...darn it. In short, I agree with all of your comments and I've taken personal measures to make sure my library covers those deficiencies

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundee1 I think I have all of New Orders album output except the box set and the last album. Can you recommend their best recordings and best versions on CD? Any other rarities I should pick up? I really love Joy Division at Les Bains *******.

I really love the Shep Pettibone Morning Sun Remix of True Faith. For a while you could only get it on the vinyl. But the release of 1963 as a single in 1995 has a limited edition boxed single of 1963 that has as the 4th track this very cool True Faith remix. It's in a white box with a cutout of "1963" on the front with a blue embossed background.

 

[Masonjar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn Argh I just wrote a huge post in response and it got wiped! Well to make it short, i ripped a copy and the CD-R doesn't sound as good, which is odd. So I dunno if you'll want it lol. I made comments on all of your comments...darn it. In short, I agree with all of your comments and I've taken personal measures to make sure my library covers those deficiencies

I got a 12" of Ceremony/In a Lonely Place.. picked it up a few years ago used.. but in decent shape. It has a green jacket with gold (I think) lettering. Is this a different mix than is on SUBSTANCE? I never really compared.

SUBSTANCE was my first New Order, actually, I had taped the 2nd disc and had that for almost a year before I bought the full 2 cd set (a friend only had the 2nd disc.. he only liked the "Joy Divsion" songs at the beginning as he put it).. so I guess the 2nd disc versions hold a special place in my heart over the 1st disc..

anyone have VIDEO SUBSTANCE? Is this on DVD yet? That video for "Perfect Kiss" is amazing to watch.

-jar

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masonjar I got a 12" of Ceremony/In a Lonely Place.. picked it up a few years ago used.. but in decent shape. It has a green jacket with gold (I think) lettering. Is this a different mix than is on SUBSTANCE? I never really compared. SUBSTANCE was my first New Order, actually, I had taped the 2nd disc and had that for almost a year before I bought the full 2 cd set (a friend only had the 2nd disc.. he only liked the "Joy Divsion" songs at the beginning as he put it).. so I guess the 2nd disc versions hold a special place in my heart over the 1st disc.. anyone have VIDEO SUBSTANCE? Is this on DVD yet? That video for "Perfect Kiss" is amazing to watch. -jar

Yep your version is the superior extended version. Just like temptation has a superior version on vinyl, as mentioned above. Nothing like the original long form singles!

I have the video version of substance on VHS - darn it when will they release this on DVD? Perfect Kiss on that video is the full long version and it kicks butt, showing how they did it "live" in the studio. You have to love the electronic frogs and the real cowbell.

And that video version of Bizarre Love Triangle cracks me up in the middle - "I Don't believe in reincarnation because i REFUSE to believe that I'll come back as a BUG or a RABBIT!" "You know, you're really an 'Up" person." cue the music!

 

[bong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn I really love the Shep Pettibone Morning Sun Remix of True Faith. For a while you could only get it on the vinyl. But the release of 1963 as a single in 1995 has a limited edition boxed single of 1963 that has as the 4th track this very cool True Faith remix. It's in a white box with a cutout of "1963" on the front with a blue embossed background.

the full Shep Pettibone Morning Sun Remix of True Faith is also on (the rest of) New Order, which is a lot easier than locating the 1963-95 single these days. i think the first part of the song is really really good, then it gets a bit boring in the last half, after Barney finishes singing. i usually fade it out at the 5:55 mark myself. there's also a shorter edit (it's like four and a half minutes) of the same remix that appears on the "Bright Lights Big City" soundtrack, which i have on cassette somewhere...

hey jahn, i was wondering if you have the True Faith 1994 single? i never picked it up back then (stupid me!!!

) and i'm desparate to find the Perfecto remix of it. can you help me?

 

[Jahn]

LAFF what do you know you are right - it's on the rest of new order lol. As is the infamous mix of Confusion that all the ravers bought the Blade soundtrack for, haha.

Yep i have the True Faith-94 single right here- the '94 radio edit, the perfecto radio edit, the perfecto mix, the full length version of '94 and the TWA Grim Up North Mix. I think New order liked it so much they actually played the version of the perfecto mix live a few times.

 

[Masonjar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn "You know, you're really an 'Up" person." cue the music!

that was an in-joke with my crew in college.. at some random point usually involving alcohol.. one of us would just bust out that line.. it would crack us all up.

The Bon Jovi parody is hilarious too.

-jar

 

[bong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundee1 I think I have all of New Orders album output except the box set and the last album. Can you recommend their best recordings and best versions on CD? Any other rarities I should pick up? I really love Joy Division at Les Bains *******.

hmm... if we're talking about sound quality, it varies from album to album. if they're never gonna remaster and reissue the old albums, we're pretty much stuck with the Retro Box Set as that's the only place the songs were remastered. one could argue about the remaster job though; for example "Ceremony" on Retro sounds like the levels are too high, causing clipping in several instances. "Ceremony" on Substance doesn't have that problem. also, "Temptation" on Retro runs just a tad too fast, while "Temptation" on the 1981-1982 EP has perfect pitch. "Confusion" on Retro also sounds a bit distorted, like the levels again were set too high, but this is the ONLY place to get it on CD.

i can't remember if International features a remaster job, but if i remember correctly, it has the gawd-awful version of "Blue Monday" from when they went back to the original tapes to release the Blue Monday 1995 singles. it sounded like they used the original masters way too much, because the sound quality is horrid. it sounds like the tape kept getting out of alignment from the tape head, and it's missing the first few opening beats!

hmm... if you have most all of the albums (besides Get Ready), it sounds like Retro is the way to go as it ties up a few loose ends. it has the original 12" versions of "Temptation" and "Confusion," as well as some hard to locate remixes. other than that, maybe the 1981-1982 EP. really the only other way to get all the rarities is to find all the old singles.

 

[bong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masonjar I got a 12" of Ceremony/In a Lonely Place.. picked it up a few years ago used.. but in decent shape. It has a green jacket with gold (I think) lettering. Is this a different mix than is on SUBSTANCE? I never really compared. -jar

hey Masonjar. sadly, it's the original 7" of Ceremony/In a Lonely Place that's the one to get as it features the original version of Ceremony, recorded as a trio without Gillian Gilbert. IIRC the one on most 12" singles and Substance is the re-recorded version. also, IIRC the 12" to get is the white jacket with the blue vertical stripe down the middle.

there are many debates whether which version is better. the original is rawer, and less tight. Steve messes up the drumming a bit in the intro. the re-recorded version is definitely much tighter and glossier.

 

[bong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masonjar that was an in-joke with my crew in college.. at some random point usually involving alcohol.. one of us would just bust out that line.. it would crack us all up. The Bon Jovi parody is hilarious too. -jar

oh i LOVE the Touched by the Hand of God video, it's so hilarious!

 

[sno1man]

You know it's too bad but New Order's catalog on CD is really a mess.(joy division's too a lesser extent as well) As others have pointed out songs like temptation and confusion have been tinkered with and remixed to death 99% of which is a step backward.

temptation on the original vinyl ep is the superior version. I have it (found it used in pristine condition) and carefully digitized it with pro tools. It is the song that got me in to new order. Same thing about sound applies to Blue Monday which was a 12" single that came in a floppy disk looking sleeve(alas this one of mine is not in as good a condition) It really was a breakthrough piece of music even though now it's been played too much.

The superior version of confusion was also a 12" with the original along with an Arthur baker remix (the best version in my opinion) and a beat's only version which would be good in a club

This makes me sound like a vinyl curmudgeon which I'm not but I don't understand why the new order catalog is in the state it's in. I'd gladly pay for good quality reissues of the original albums maybe with bonus tracks and then a "singles" compilation.

Even though retro is pretty good, the version of Crystal on it sounds terrible.

Ok through bit***ng now.

and by the way if you were just to buy one (CD) album of New Orders my vote would go to Power Corruption and Lies. Just because it has one of their greatest songs on it "age of consent" Interestingly the original vinyl version did not have blue monday on it. It was added to the CD

 

[DarkAngel]

I would love to get CD 1 of New Order Retro 4 CD set (don't really want the remixes or live tracks) just to get original 12" version of song "Confusion" which is far superior to any version that has appeared on subsequent Best Of collections like "Substance" I am old enough to have purchased original Confusion EP first day it came out......I remember it had a spiral pattern artwork on cover

But I am not going to buy 4 CDs just to get 1 CD that I want from set. (even at used price level)

Fav overall NO song: Age of Consent (great bass line by Peter Hook)

Fav overall NO Album:Technique (I am going against critcs here but this is best)

If I had to pick 2nd fav NO album I would choose Movement with its serene melancholic synth, dark desolate lonely........but beautiful.

Most beautiful NO song: All Day Long (from Brotherhood album)