New oBravo Ra C Cu model 21.5
Nov 6, 2022 at 2:41 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 19

jonstatt

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I just received a brand new version of the Ra C Cu knows as model 21.5 . They look visibly different to previous versions.

Firstly as you can see from the picture, the copper is very bright, shiny and free of the micro scratches of previous versions. They look stunning but there is a special black version available too.

Secondly, there is a bevelled edge where the driver enclosure has been increased in volume. This should allow for improvements in bass extension.

So does it sound different to Ra C Cu model 21? The overall tone and character of the sound has not changed and that's a good thing. But there are two notable audio differences.

Soundstage improvements are easily audible. There is an obvious increase in width. I wasn't expecting such a notable audible difference. So many tracks extended out further to the sides. It was quite a rush hearing it for the first time.

Sub bass clearly extends lower and is more present generally. Note that these IEMs need substantial running in before sounding their best.

The efficiency of the new version is improved so if comparing against old versions of Ra, you will need to re-level and match the volumes .

As a pairing with the AK SP3000, they sound absolutely amazing; the best combination I've heard to date. In fact nothing I've heard comes close especially the ability to sound more like full-size speakers rather than earphones.

It is possible to part exchange from older versions of Ra but there will be a fee.
 
Nov 7, 2022 at 9:23 AM Post #2 of 19
Glad you are enjoying your new 21.5, they are the result of a lot of hard work and I hope they finally put to rest the previous feedback on the original Ra which was very mixed. These truly are a complete work of art and I hope people will be able to experience this new version at shows across the globe. Sadly they have become even more exclusive as the yield is so low on these.
 
Nov 7, 2022 at 10:28 AM Post #3 of 19
I also have the new Ra and Astell&Kern's excellent SP3000 and find them to be a big upgrade from a visual point of view.

Sound-wise, they excel with a cavernous soundstage, addicting bass response and well rounded frequency response throughout and make for an excellent pairing with Astell&Kern's excellent SP3000.

They also sound nothing short of fantastic with my DAVE and Mscaler.

Yes, they are very expensive but well worth owning. I am rather proud to have them in my own collection, now as my only set of IEMS.

To echo Jon's thoughts above, the iems got substantially better after a prolonged burn in period.
 

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Nov 11, 2022 at 10:34 AM Post #5 of 19
Well, one more thread about oBravo.
Okay, I'll write something here too)

As you might guess, I also got Ra C Cu 21.5.
And I also have their predecessor, an older version. Is a long story why. Maybe one day I will tell it.
Although I don't have SP3000.

Perhaps I will be in the minority, and the appearance of the old Ra is more appealing to me. I understand how much work has been done to achieve such hulls as they are now, but I say it like it is.

Light darkening and more textured wood with engraved logo. It looks a bit vintage and evokes thoughts of analog sound.
Instead, the new shell is completely pure pink copper. It's attractive, but I hope it gets a little darker over time. Although now they visually combine well with copper cables)
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In addition, the size of the shell visually decreased slightly. If earlier it was a strong base, now it looks more refined.

It is noticeable that a lot of work has been done on the shell. Obviously, there are common features - after all, it looks very similar. But for now it is still a different model. And if earlier the version could be distinguished only by what was written on the box, now it can be done by the shape and color.
When I saw the new photos of the 21.5 I asked David and Phil if it was just a render or if this is what the new body will look like. Then they did not answer my question, but now I know that yes, the new case is just like that)

The next point is the connectors. I don't really like oB-MMCX as they are custom. However, in past Ra's there was a little play when connected. Now they connect noticeably tighter and hold more reliably.

Maybe it's because they are new now, but still. This allows you to more easily connect adapters to them and not worry about losing them. Hold firmly and reliably. Not that it was bad, but it still got better.

The case in general seems to be a little smaller and more compact, although this is only a consequence of the visual changes of the shell.
The fit is excellent, comfortable. It didn't cause any problems for me before, but now it's a little better because the shape of the shell has changed a little. When I listened to them for about an hour, I did not have to correct them at all, etc.

Sound

I haven't burned them through the recommended 200 hours yet, but I still couldn't resist listening.
In short, it got better.

The first noticeable improvement for me is the width of the stage. I was disappointed that the AMT driver in the IEM often gives a rather narrow, even limited stage. Mainly in width.
This was one of the reasons why the EAMT-1c (oh, didn't I say? I have those too) are pretty critical of the source.
An individual combination with a certain source can remove this problem almost completely, or do nothing about it.

To a lesser extent it was in Ra. So they were better combined with different sources. However, there was still this feature - a narrow stage.
Now it's better. The stage is really wide. I won't call it phenomenal, but it's definitely not narrow and wider than average. This is very good.

The second is naturalness.
Little nuances and details no longer sound distinct, they are where it is expected and they are more realistic. Their fullness, character and dimension are better conveyed.

Control.
Ra have become a little better to control, they are able to control bass and high frequencies. I haven't listened to them with many sources, but so far the combinations I've heard sound good.

Dynamics.
Compared to what was before, the transmission of the dynamic range has improved. It also improved the naturalness and interaction between instruments.

And, finally, the frequency range.
I noticed a slight improvement in depth, and in addition, the bass became a little more varied and precise. So the hits are a little more textured.
The treble transmission has become a little better. They extend a little further.
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All impressions are preliminary and may change slightly when the user experience is longer. If anything changes, it will be reflected in the review coming soon.
 
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Nov 14, 2022 at 9:18 AM Post #6 of 19
Good impressions @Amadeo Nospherathu I didn't know your are also a Ra owner.

I am surprised by your soundstage findings with the old model, I have always associated the Ra line with ear speakers more so than iems on staging alone.

I just got my reterminated Eletech Aeneid back from Singapore, the result (both cosmetically and sonically) is just excellent.

I, for one, am a big fan of the new finish. My old pair had quite a few blemishes on the shell, which took away from the luxury feeling.

One additional big difference is that there is FINALLY no driver flex.

Every other pair of the Ra I have tried has always had driver flex at least on one side when inserting the earphone into the ear canal.
 

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Nov 14, 2022 at 12:46 PM Post #7 of 19
If I'm following this right, Ra->Ra21, shell rework, cable, new AMT(?)->Ra21.5, new shell, different drivers? What's caused the impedance drop? (Based on the mention of easier to drive)
 
Nov 14, 2022 at 2:01 PM Post #8 of 19
If I'm following this right, Ra->Ra21, shell rework, cable, new AMT(?)->Ra21.5, new shell, different drivers? What's caused the impedance drop? (Based on the mention of easier to drive)
The new version has a different body and a slightly different setup.
I also read that the size of the driver's camera has increased slightly.
I don't know if the drivers themselves have changed, but the crossover must сhanged (or whatever is replacing it, since I'm not sure what it actually is).
So, apparently, the characteristics have also changed. However, I haven't seen the official 21.5 specs.
My comment about the ease of control was more about the demandingness of the model on the source. Previously, you could get an unsuccessful combo, but now 21.5 matches the source better.
The cable is updated, yes. It is more convenient and now has a system of interchangeable jacks.
 
Nov 14, 2022 at 2:12 PM Post #9 of 19
Good impressions @Amadeo Nospherathu I didn't know your are also a Ra owner.

I am surprised by your soundstage findings with the old model, I have always associated the Ra line with ear speakers more so than iems on staging alone.

I just got my reterminated Eletech Aeneid back from Singapore, the result (both cosmetically and sonically) is just excellent.

I, for one, am a big fan of the new finish. My old pair had quite a few blemishes on the shell, which took away from the luxury feeling.

One additional big difference is that there is FINALLY no driver flex.

Every other pair of the Ra I have tried has always had driver flex at least on one side when inserting the earphone into the ear canal.
Yes, I already own Ra. Even two)
As you probably remember, I was looking for them, and this search was long, but it ended in success.

As for the finish of the case, it is a matter of taste. The old one has a somewhat more classic, vintage look. I like such things. Such as Astell&Kern copper body, etc.
The new ones look more like jewelry. And I don't like jewelry.
However, as I said, this is a matter of taste.

I did not notice the flex driver. It is possible that this is the peculiarity of landing, etc. I don't use foam tips. Maybe that's the point.

Glad you got the cable. I bought a pair of connectors to make a custom cable, but still haven't decided which one. So for now I'm using adapters that I once saw in your pics.
 
Nov 14, 2022 at 2:36 PM Post #10 of 19
The new version has a different body and a slightly different setup.
I also read that the size of the driver's camera has increased slightly.
I don't know if the drivers themselves have changed, but the crossover must сhanged (or whatever is replacing it, since I'm not sure what it actually is).
So, apparently, the characteristics have also changed. However, I haven't seen the official 21.5 specs.
My comment about the ease of control was more about the demandingness of the model on the source. Previously, you could get an unsuccessful combo, but now 21.5 matches the source better.
The cable is updated, yes. It is more convenient and now has a system of interchangeable jacks.
Ah OK, so impedance remains around 180(2?) Ohm? You're just referring to the tuning working better over more varied source?
 
Nov 14, 2022 at 9:55 PM Post #11 of 19
Ra 21.5 has a slightly larger internal volume which creates an even greater soundstage to 21. The 21.5 has a different shape to give a greater surface area to attach the ceramic nozzle. We also moved the connector further away from the body in order to stop the cable connector from rubbing on the body of the earphone.

Impedance is now at 162ohm

Ra 21.5 is incredible

Ra>Ra 21(new hand reworked NDD, new airflow, new cable, new xover, new impedance)>Ra 21.5(new chassis)
 
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Nov 15, 2022 at 3:41 AM Post #12 of 19
Ah cool. The attention to improvements is quite commendable tbh!

The drop in impedance, so that's purely based on change in driver then? How's that achieved? Sorry, find this sort of stuff quite interesting.
 
Nov 15, 2022 at 3:54 AM Post #13 of 19
Ah cool. The attention to improvements is quite commendable tbh!

The drop in impedance, so that's purely based on change in driver then? How's that achieved? Sorry, find this sort of stuff quite interesting.

Yeah the driver is new, then it was tried and didn't perform as it was needed. Only way to get it to perform well was to rebuild it in house. So it is and the impedance is now 162.
 
Nov 15, 2022 at 6:46 AM Post #14 of 19
Ah OK, so impedance remains around 180(2?) Ohm? You're just referring to the tuning working better over more varied source?
First of all I mean compatibility through the old Ra's scene. The compact soundstage of the source may not blend well with the Ra soundstage.
The Ra 21.5 has a better wider soundstage, so it can blend better with the source's more compact soundstage. 21.5 are more universal.

However, 21.5 is also a little easier to drive. That is, if you set the same volume on the source, then 21.5 is a little louder. But this is a very small difference.

That is, for example, 21.5 can work well at a low gain. The old Ra's worked better at high gain.
 
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Dec 15, 2022 at 10:26 AM Post #15 of 19
Waiting with great anticipation to receive my Ra 21.5 C Cu Black Editions - should be here in the next few days, Phil will run them in first - just to add to the agony waiting 😀
They will connect to my SP3000 also supplied by Phil, and the EA Centurion cable and if more juice is required my C9 amp
Will post more once I’ve used them a bit.
I’m interested to know folks view on the Black Edition design; I find them classy and musically looking, Phil is less convinced 🤔
 

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