New MP3 player better then minidisc?

[Neruda]

well I dunno, the PJB already has a 20gig HD version. But there will definitely be some cool players as time goes on; imagine, 30 hour battery life, small size, better encoding, even more space. That's what I'm inagining at least...

get this too: if a HD player comes out with the capability to play WAV files (I think the Treo does, I'll check on that) and has a big enough hard drive, you could put music on it in perfect CD quality by ripping them into WAV's. With a 20gig hard drive you could put at least 30 CD's on...with a 40gig hard drive you could put at least 61 CD's on...with a 60gig hard drive you would put at least 92 CD's on. I"m pretty darn sure that a wav file could beat ATRAC

. Still, that's probably a few years off. Also, the larger the files the worse the battery life so a player with that capability would need a very good battery life and that could be tricky.

 

[coolvij]

Quote:

"m pretty darn sure that a wav file could beat ATRAC

Yea - MD is gonna have to go towards WAV eventually ..... it really stinks, tho, that the TECHNOLOGY is there, and the big execs are stopping it. Cuz of "piracy".

If i were a pirate....a *serious* pirate - I'd be using DAT....what are they thinking.....oh well.....

HD players/HIGH-capacity flash players are definetely wave of the future.

 

[Vertigo-1]

Quote:

my question is, why are you so damn worried about when it will come out?

Because by the time the Treo comes out, it may have well been overridden by superior technology. If it comes out so late that there's something plainly better, or, as I just learned in economics, if there's plainly something that can be substituted for it (such as the Archos, which could EASILY be made superior through just a couple of firmware swaps if they bothered), who's going to give a damn about the Treo? Especially if it's still going to come out in this day and age with specs that are a year old now. That's pretty much the same trick 3dfx tried to pull with their Voodoo 5s, and boy did that backfire horribly.

As for the battery life, that is going to be a BIG issue for HD/memory based portables, because of the intensive CPU decoding that must go on within these units. As it is, they're already using pretty powerful lithium ion batteries, and they're still draining those dry within 10 hours. Considering we're already in the 3rd generation or so of MP3 players, and we're still seeing battery life around only 10 hours, I don't predict them reaching a steady 20 or 30 hours for a LONG time with MP3 files. Much less them trying to pair WAV files with long battery life times.

I really can't wait to see how Net MD turns out actually, as NetMD would nullify the whole "real time recording" problem that MDs have. And if there's security measures built in? Well, what security hasn't eventually been cracked sooner or later?

 

[coolvij]

yeah, vert - SCMS is even defeatable. And what could be worse than SCMS!? lol...

 

[Neruda]

I suppose the most important thing about the treo is that it's incredibly small compared to all the other HD players. and if it has as much power as it claims to have, any headphone lover in their right mind will be tripping all the other headphone lovers other to get one of these. I mean come on, why do people covet those old sony's so much? It seems to me that the players sony's making right now are smaller, have longer battery life, and have better shock protection...

 

[coolvij]

along with cheaper components, MUCH worse headphone outs, and worse build quality.

It's not just juicy headphone jacks ppl want, neruda....

 

[Neruda]

what do you mean? That seems somewhat contradictory to me. My comments were in favor of the older sony's, not the newer ones.

 

[Vertigo-1]

If coolvij meant the current MD players, I don't know about worse build quality...by making the players smaller, the density increases, so I would think build quality is actually better than ever before. Every Sony MD player I've ever touched has felt utterly rock solid...they don't go el cheapo on their MD players. Also very satisfying to know is turning each Sony MD player over and seeing that it's made straight in Japan...no third world country sweat shop generics here. Same goes for cheaper components...crack open any MD player's lid, and look inside...cheap components is the last thing that comes to my mind.

As for the headphone amp...personally, I don't believe in bothering with portable amps or 50mw internal amps. For one, the only reason you'd really need those kinds of amps is to drive large headphones, and for the 'phones to be larger than the player rather renders the whole idea of having a small player null in the first place. And secondly, portables are meant to be used in noisy enviroments...and when you're in noisy environments, you will never catch your music 100%. Not even with Etymotics. So, why bother trying to be a perfectionist on portable equipment? I personally prefer to go stock, just a player with some efficient earphones attached to it...I'll take size and battery life over trying to perfect a portable listening environment with 50mw amps and the whatnot. Unless they can make portable 'phones that can give me the same kind of environment outside that I get at 1:00AM with doors closed and windows shut, I don't believe it's worth it.

On the other hand, if you're the type that also is stuck with a portable as your home source, then portable amps and 50mw amps can come into play.

As usual, read my sig.

 

[Mike Walker]

Vertigo writes "As for the headphone amp...personally, I don't believe in bothering with portable amps or 50mw internal amps. For one, the only reason you'd really need those kinds of amps is to drive large headphones, and for the 'phones to be larger than the player rather renders the whole idea of having a small player null in the first place"

I think Vertigo means "the only reason you'd really need those kinds of amps is to drive LESS SENSITIVE headphones", as the SIZE of the headphone has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with sensitivity. Some VERY sensitive 'phones are large (Sony MDR-V6), and some insensitive phones are small (some Etymotic models).

In speakers, at least, all other things being equal, a larger diaphram will be MORE sensitive than a smaller one attached to the same voice coil, in the same box, as the larger cone will move more air with the same voice coil excursion. The same would be true in headphones too, "if all things were equal". Obviously, they seldom are (all equal)

But there certainly is nothing so clear as an inverse relationship between size and sensitivity! Not AT ALL!

 

[coolvij]

eek - big miscommunication, methinks.

To clarify.

Neruda posted:
Quote:

It seems to me that the players sony's making right now are smaller, have longer battery life, and have better shock protection...

And I replied:
Quote:

along with cheaper components, MUCH worse headphone outs, and worse build quality.

I mean, the old guys, like the D777, have more going for them than just a juicy headphone out.....that's all I meant....

 

[Vertigo-1]

Cheaper components and amps maybe, but NOT cheaper build quality! Pick up any top of the line Sony player that uses magnesium alloy in its construction, and tell me it's cheaply built, and I'll smack you.

In fact, just about any modern top of the line player feels better built IMO than the 777...the 777 and 905 "feels" even cheaper than the current lineup cause of its lightweight material use, which I do not think was very appropriate for such a high end player. Although Sony was probably aiming at eliminating weight primarily with the 777/905, I would feel much better about a $300+ player if it actually FELT like that player was made out of something. My D-465 is from the same generation as the 777, sound quality, 15mw amp and all, except it also has a very heavy aluminum lid and a metal shutter to cover the buttons. And costed less to boot. Now with the D-465, I KNOW I got a quality player.

It's the same principle as people saying they feel ridiculous when they pay for one of those lower end Grados, and end up with a 'phone that looks cheaper than an equivilent priced Sony, sound quality aside.

Ahh and Mike, thanks for the correction, that is what I meant.

 

[Tim D]

Man I stupidly lent my old dinosaur Sony MD player to a friend before I even ever first used it....

it came back with HUGE dents, gashes, missing screws, and everything...but still works perfectly hehe.

 

[coolvij]

Vertigo: Whoopsies....I guess I'm in for a smacking

Still.....when I said build quality, I *think* I was referring to the OLD (D-5, etc.) PCDPs.....I say I *think* since I can't really justify that statement otherwise

 

[Mike Walker]

I have a D-5 (the ORIGINAL portable cd!) in MINT condition, with battery pack (it runs for about 40 minutes on fully charged Ni-Cads!). It has of course only ONE d/a converter, the frequency response smoothly rolls off between 15khz and 20khz (just like many of the high end tube cd players today!), it uses NO oversampling, and sounds pretty damn good (despite breaking all the audiophile rules!) And it still works like new. SWEET!

 

[coolvij]

heh, mike - wanna trade? for maybe....i dunno.......a D-121?