[purrin]

      Quote:

Originally Posted by visualguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
...
 
The SR-007 sound so good to me out of the KGSS and 323S that I've been having a hard time imagining how the BHSE can make them sound significantly better. There just isn't an obvious weakness to address (like with the 007t and unmodded 727).
 
Anyway,  I'll have to look for an opportunity to listen to the BHSE with the SR-007 and SR-009.
 

 
 
Just another perspective (and not to minimize your own observations), but I felt the 007s sounded like fart out of the 323 compared to a BH. Although interestingly enough, the SR-Omega1s actually sounded OK (or perhaps even pretty good) from the 323. I'm hoping the SR009 will be the latter category. It's so hard to tell because people have different expectations of what constitutes "OK" or "good" sounding.
 

 

[complin]

I totally agree.
Much is made of the differences interconnects can make by manufactures and some reviewers.  Whilst I have found different interconnects useful in in tuning my headphone system the changes are quite subtle and not night and day as some would have you believe.  IMHO I think this is much the same with aftermarket headphone cables and after buying several of these at $500< the difference was marginal in relation to the cost.  At full retail price they represent very poor value for money and if buying used interconnects you need to be ultra careful as there are so many fakes from the far east.
 
Spritzer given that you build your own perhaps you tell us what materials you have tried/used and if you put them in your own dielectrics etc.  I have heard that Belden microphone cable and Mundorf silver/gold can make good interconnects for quite a modest price. 

 
Quote:

I used to be a paid-in-full member of the cable club with Stealth Indra's but now I just make my own.  I clearly can afford the best but why waste money on something which has no benefits?
 
Now a 5K$ amp which is properly designed will only give a marginal improvement over a lesser priced amp which is also sufficiently well designed.  That is to be expected since you are just throwing money at chasing smaller and smaller improvements.  Moving from basic filter PSU's to regulated units gives and easy improvement but the increase in cost is also pretty big.  That's why Stax have only once used a regulated PSU in their amps, they simply don't see it as cost efficient.  To put this into context lets compare the BHSE vs. our DIY version of the Stax SRM-T2.  The T2 is clearly better but if it were a retail product it wouldn't sell for less than 15k$ (probably closer to 20K$) so is it 3-4 times better?  Nope but the superiority of the T2 is clear from the first few minutes of listening to it. 

 

 

[complin]

Yeah too true.  I had/have the same problem with the HD800 and did not like the artificial bright sound at all and was persuaded to to buy a $650 cable that would supposedly fix the problem.  However; when I compared It to the stock cable there was very little difference, I still had the problem with the sound and my wallet was a lot lighter

  

 
Quote:

I fully agree with you Milos!  Headphones make the biggest difference in the sound of something.  I too went down the stupid path of trying to upgrade cables in order to find the perfect sound out of my HD800 + WA5 combo last year, but looking back it was a really stupid move and got rid of it all.  I tried multi thousand dollar cables and to be honest with you, most of them are a huge waste of money.  I understand people hearing differences..but in my experience all these cables do is EQ the sound in one direction or another...not necessarily making the sound "better".  I don't really trust anybody doing A/B tests because they are inherently biased towards wanting to hear a difference and the mind plays tricks on you.
 
Same thing applies to power cables...except there the difference is even more subtle. So when I hear people say that a $3000 power cable is worth every penny they spend on it...I'm just baffled since that money would be better spent on just about anything else. 
 
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[carm]

Can anyone tell, where one can pre-order SR-009 in Europe ?
Thanks.

 

[padam]

I guess you can pre-order at your nearest Stax dealer as it is written there.

 

[warp08]

Quote:

I take it one step further than Andy and still use Monoprice
 
warp, I'd actually say there isn't enough emphasis on how much more important the headphone is than the other stuff.  Put it this way - if I were to close my eyes and you put my different headphones on my head I'd be able to tell you which one I'm listening to.  Doing the same with sources and most amps (depends a lot on the HP load) I can almost guarantee most people wouldn't be able to pick correctly on a consistent basis.  I'd actually love to see something like this done at a meet just to see all the excuses afterwards. 

 

Of course headphones are important, never said otherwise, but it is only and endpoint in a component chain.  We actually did A/B testing between different interconnects at the Chicago meet and were able to pick out the better cable every single time and that was with a Meridian G-08/B52 combo paired to a bass-heavy R10.  In this case an RCA cable outperformed a balanced XLR cable, which is quite a feat.  A G-08 is a decent source, but can't hold a candle to an ESOTERIC or dCS high-end DSD source.  My experience is that the higher up you go, the bigger difference cable matching makes overall.  There are always exceptions to this as cables and systems vary.  Is a difference between a $5K component and a $25K component worth $20K?  My answer is: it depends.  At that level we are talking about subtleties, nuances, not Earth-shattering, eye-opening differences.  But isn't what so-called "critical listening" is about?  Isn't that what being an audiophile is about?  If you're happy with what you got, that's cool with me.  I have no financial interest in any of the companies I may recommend based on first-hand, personal experience, as I assume Spritzer has none in STAX.  It's all good.
 
I guess as long as we keep an open mind and exchange our impressions, opinions and experiences without being judgmental, it will benefit all of us.  I know my perspective had changed dramatically since my source upgrade--which itself had been prompted by acquiring the HE90s--which in turn led to "upgrade" my CDs and SACDs to the latest releases.  The cable upgrades were important tweaks for me and enjoyed the selection process.  Looking forward to experience my SR-009s on my system.  Googleli has posted his impressions on his K-01 source upgrade and the difference it had made for him as well.  Granted, not everyone can afford such equipment.  I'm grateful that I can and work hard in order to be able to do so.  And it's been a blast so far.
 
 

 

[Arnaldo]

Regardless of specific financial or technical choices, I subscribe as well to the doctrine on the interaction between every component on the chain, from the source recording all the way to the headphones. The improvements may be incremental rather than exponential, but well worth pursuing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by warp08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
[...] I know my perspective had changed dramatically since my source upgrade--which itself had been prompted by acquiring the HE90s--which in turn led to "upgrade" my CDs and SACDs to the latest releases.  The cable upgrades were important tweaks for me and enjoyed the selection process.  Looking forward to experience my SR-009s on my system.  Googleli has posted his impressions on his K-01 source upgrade and the difference it had made for him as well.  Granted, not everyone can afford such equipment.  I'm grateful that I can and work hard in order to be able to do so.  And it's been a blast so far.
 

 

 

[visualguy]

Quote:

      Quote:
 
 
Just another perspective (and not to minimize your own observations), but I felt the 007s sounded like fart out of the 323 compared to a BH. Although interestingly enough, the SR-Omega1s actually sounded OK (or perhaps even pretty good) from the 323. I'm hoping the SR009 will be the latter category. It's so hard to tell because people have different expectations of what constitutes "OK" or "good" sounding.
 

Did you feed your 323S beans instead of electricity? No farts from mine, just music that sounds the same as what I get from the KGSS in every way.
 

 

[spritzer]

I'm all for a new high end SS amps, hence my involvement in the KGSSHV but tubes are the natural partner for electrostatics.  I for one prefer SS in every way but finding suitable transistors isn't easy and you quickly run into walls.  They are also discontinued at an alarming rate but tubes are far more resilient.  Now I've been using Blue Hawaii's for 7 years now and I'm still using my original set of EL34's I bought for the first amp and they still work great.  Biasing takes a whole minute or so none of this is an issue.  With high current and Class A you will always have a lot of heat, there is no way around this.  You can use advanced variable biasing such as what Krell have done to try and manage the heat but that isn't practical with something like this since most of the heat is generated by the main CCS which is set at a fixed current.  Now if you think the BHSE is large you should see the T2 or indeed the Single Power monstrosities.  My ESX is just gigantic and the ES-2 amps were even bigger...

For cables it is all just BS.  All these claims of massive improvements just beg the question, how bad was it before?  Adding color can be done with simple filter networks (which can be made with cables) so how about just using something that lets the sound though unhindered and unmolested?  The cables I use vary from very simple to utterly crazy DIY silver cables I built years ago but most of my system is wired with DIY cable made of Kimber TCSS.  I had a lot of 4TC and 8TC speaker cables from my speaker days so I ripped them apart and braided them again for use as interconnects.  I also use the same wire inside my amps and/or Belden SPC.  That one I use because it has a 1200V rating which helps with crazy electrostatic amps.  Power cords are all DIY as well but just because I want a certain length and/or custom connector. 
 
What I find truly annoying is when people refuse to use the correct cables for the job in favor of some audiophile BS product which will dramatically degrade the sound.  This is especially true with digital cables, S/PDIF should be carried over a 75ohm coax with a 75ohm BNC termination but most of the "fancy" cables don't come anywhere close to that spec.  Then we have the USB cables which can't meet the spec and have been proven to have a terrible effect on the data...
 
Quote:

Birgir, you still don't have an ETA on your sr009? I am very interesting in hearing your comments about the pairings with your collection of amps.

Additionally, I am thinking of getting a 2nd amp at some point for my AV system. I was thinking of getting another 727 (used) and modding one of them. But I get also get a 323S new for less than a used 727. Which road do you recommend assuming I'll be using a sr-007mk2 or sr-009? I am quite interested in having both modded and stock 727 at the same time for comparisons though

.

I'm still waiting for Yama's to get their act together so who knows when I'll get my set.  I did buy a SR-007 Mk2 SZ3 version this week so I'll have every type of Omega to compare against the SR-009. 
 
I for one wouldn't worry about having a second 727 to compare against, the effect of the mod is far from subtle.  I would also recommend playing with the arc's of the SR-007 A/Mk2 as I've gotten great results with this set I'm using now (early SR-007A SZ2 version).  No need to do either the port of spring mods since with the correct tension on the earpads they do the same trick.  Well almost, the port is still there so some part of the spectrum is a bit off but I'd class it under character rather then a flaw. 
 

 

[TheAttorney]

A simpler solution to reducing all that heat is for the amp to have a standby switch, which drops or reduces the high powered circuits, but allows the amp to stay warm and ready for action - more subtle and generally less stress on the amp than frequent use of an on/off switch. This seems so obvious to me, I just don't understand why the BHSE and many other "hot" amps don't do it - because there are plenty of amps that do.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
With high current and Class A you will always have a lot of heat, there is no way around this.  You can use advanced variable biasing such as what Krell have done to try and manage the heat but that isn't practical with something like this since most of the heat is generated by the main CCS which is set at a fixed current.

 

[monsieurguzel]

agreed.  I know this isn't a headphone amp, but my Atma Sphere M-60s have 2 switches which is great since I can just keep the amp on idle and warm throughout the day and only switch them to high power when I do my listening.  Saves on electricity and is probably a little easier on the tubes since they don't get a sudden surge of plate voltage while they are still cold.

 

[visualguy]

Quote:

I'm all for a new high end SS amps, hence my involvement in the KGSSHV but tubes are the natural partner for electrostatics.  I for one prefer SS in every way but finding suitable transistors isn't easy and you quickly run into walls.  They are also discontinued at an alarming rate but tubes are far more resilient.  Now I've been using Blue Hawaii's for 7 years now and I'm still using my original set of EL34's I bought for the first amp and they still work great.  Biasing takes a whole minute or so none of this is an issue.  With high current and Class A you will always have a lot of heat, there is no way around this.  You can use advanced variable biasing such as what Krell have done to try and manage the heat but that isn't practical with something like this since most of the heat is generated by the main CCS which is set at a fixed current.  Now if you think the BHSE is large you should see the T2 or indeed the Single Power monstrosities.  My ESX is just gigantic and the ES-2 amps were even bigger...

 

 
The KGSSHV makes sense to me, and I hope someone such as Justin @ HeadAmp offers it as a commercial product. By the way, it will be nice if it can be housed in a smaller chassis than the KGSS, and if the power switch and input selector can be placed on the front panel.
 
I'm a lot more ambivalent about the BHSE - I feel that it's difficult to swallow unless there's a significant improvement in sound quality when compared to good SS amps (KGSS/323S/modded 727).
 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

The KGSSHV makes sense to me, and I hope someone such as Justin @ HeadAmp offers it as a commercial product. By the way, it will be nice if it can be housed in a smaller chassis than the KGSS, and if the power switch and input selector can be placed on the front panel.

 
Something shaped like the KGSS-DX would be fine - just with a single quad SA or pot this time, please. The double controls have always been annoying.
 
 

 

[visualguy]

Quote:

Something shaped like the KGSS-DX would be fine - just with a single quad SA or pot this time, please. The double controls have always been annoying.
 
 

Agreed on the attenuator.
 
By the way, how tall was the KGSS-DX chassis? The width and depth seemed fine, but I wasn't sure about the height.
 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Agreed on the attenuator.
 
By the way, how tall was the KGSS-DX chassis? The width and depth seemed fine, but I wasn't sure about the height.
 

It was much bigger than any of the Stax amps, other than maybe the T2, Im not sure exactly how big that was. A KGSS-HV in a 727 sized case is probably not possible, at least not without a separate chassis for the power supply.