[sburgoon]

So my Sen HD600s have gone bad. No audio out of the left can and I can't find a way to fix it. They served me well. Instead of just rebuying a new pair or paying to fix them, I've decided to upgrade. I'm actually considering a pair of Denon d5000's or Audio Technica w1000 (the wood finish is really appealing) but I'm very open to suggestion.

I know those will be more expensive than my goal, so I'm also considering cheaper, easier to amplify phones. I guess my main question is, is a cmoy running on 2 9-volt batteries (with a good opamp, I forget which I put in, but it was the most recommended one on the DIY forums) enough to drive those bigger phones, or will I get better sound from something smaller? Any suggestions appreciated.

-Sean

 

[ZarakiSan]

In my opinion, your sound will be influenced by:

- 70% Headphones
- 20% Amp
- 8% Source
- 2% cables

I'd say, don't worry about your CMOY since it's more than good enough to amp any dynamic headphone except mayeb the K1000's. I'd go for the cans you like best, and worry less about your amp.

As a result, D5000's are bassy or so they say, but also very high-quality. I'd say, if you can stand lots of bass, get those, but I never heard them.

Not that the A-T's are bad.

 

[synaesthetic]

I disagree on that and will say that your source is going to make up more than a loosely quantified 8% of your sound quality...

... garbage in, garbage out, right?

 

[sburgoon]

well, my source is okay. It's a pc with an X-FI or an Emu 0404 (I've been using the x-fi more just because it's a lot more convenient for games). I'm also looking at the grados (325 or rs-1), part of me would rather save some money, but I also can't quite convince myself to downgrade from the hd600s.

 

[nylan8301]

Source is fairly important. I think an X-fi is decent (IMO), so I'd say you're good. Make sure you study up on programs for use within the computer-as-source forum.

Nylan

 

[outbreak123]

Vote for D5000.

 

[dgbiker1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZarakiSan /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my opinion, your sound will be influenced by: - 70% Headphones - 20% Amp - 8% Source - 2% cables I'd say, don't worry about your CMOY since it's more than good enough to amp any dynamic headphone except mayeb the K1000's. I'd go for the cans you like best, and worry less about your amp. As a result, D5000's are bassy or so they say, but also very high-quality. I'd say, if you can stand lots of bass, get those, but I never heard them. Not that the A-T's are bad.

I agree about headphones being more influential, but I wouldn't say the CMOY is more than good enough for any dynamic phone. My K701s destroy the CMOY, you can't even get to comfortable listening levels before the amp starts clipping. I think the opamps just have trouble keeping up with headphones that demand a lot of current (i.e. K701s).

IME Grados do pretty well with a CMOY since Grado's own amplifier is basically a CMOY design! I wouldn't think of a move to a 325i from an HD600 as a downgrade, more of a sidestep. The sound signature is completely different, but equally competent in it's own right- I wouldn't pay attention to dollar values, my $200 SR225s can hang with my $450 (msrp) K701s, they're just different.

Out of the OPs original choices, I would also vote for the D5000 over the AT, but ultimately I'm a Grado/AKG lover

 

[synaesthetic]

I would also argue that the quantifiable difference caused by cables is not actually caused by the cables but by the placebo effect due to boutique cable costs and the GIGO rule.

Attaching a four inch expensive cable to the end of a few yards of PCB traces isn't going to miraculously transform the PCB traces. I suppose that if every bit of wire in the signal path was as high-quality as the cable (including the component leads) there would be room for argument, but alas this is not the case.

But then again I may just be crazy. =p

 

[ZarakiSan]

What I think is most important is that none of your components are terrible, and your headphones are good. I don't believe that a 18 volt CMOY can't push a K701 properly, since I own 250O DT880's and don't hear a thing. I do agree that there's a GIGO rule, but as long as your components apart from the headphone itself are good, the headphones make up even more - more like 80% of the difference. I get very nice results with an onboard sound card - though I can hear an improvement with my portable player, which isn't even that great to start with. Musicality is in headphones, power is in amps, blackness is in sources and I don't think cables have a sound at all.


All IMO, of course.

BTW: If I were you, I'd also look into more convential phones. BeyerDT880, K701, HD650, the familiar top three are also worthy of consideration. Don't just stare at the wood and think of how much you like it, sound's still more important!

 

[nickchen]

I have plugged most fons mentioned in my sig into a variety of amps, also including "simpler" circuits such as Cmoy, Penguin or H5. From this experience I'd say a well-made Cmoy is more than sufficient to drive most dynamic fons (except K1000 and electrostats, of course).

We're generally among technophile nerds here, so it's only natural that secondary questions of amplification qualities sometimes get a bit exagerrated.

I liked the W1K quite a lot better than the D2000 (don't know the D5000, but should be similar). The Denon is more fun though, due to its big midfi bass. ZarakiSan's remark about the "3 big Teutons" is also worth considering IMO.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would also argue that the quantifiable difference caused by cables is not actually caused by the cables but by the placebo effect due to boutique cable costs and the GIGO rule. Attaching a four inch expensive cable to the end of a few yards of PCB traces isn't going to miraculously transform the PCB traces. I suppose that if every bit of wire in the signal path was as high-quality as the cable (including the component leads) there would be room for argument, but alas this is not the case. But then again I may just be crazy. =p

Does that include cheap, stock cables too. & headphone recable jobs..

 

[dgbiker1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZarakiSan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't believe that a 18 volt CMOY can't push a K701 properly, since I own 250O DT880's and don't hear a thing.

Have you tried K701s with a CMoy or is that just an opinion? On my 18V Cmoy at the lower end of comfortable listening levels the amp distorts VERY badly during dynamic passages. I even upgraded the power section, and it made a slight improvement, but the CMoy still can't provide the current the K701 needs. Your 250Ω DT880's probably need voltage because of the high impedance, which an op-amp can provide, but the K701s need current- the characteristics of one are not transferable to the other.

 

[holland]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgbiker1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I even upgraded the power section, and it made a slight improvement, but the CMoy still can't provide the current the K701 needs. Your 250Ω DT880's probably need voltage because of the high impedance, which an op-amp can provide, but the K701s need current- the characteristics of one are not transferable to the other.

You need a different opamp, that's your problem, or your build is not very well implemented. Classifying all CMoys the same based on 1 unidentified experience is just as bogus as calling others out for not hearing a K701. 250 ohm isn't exactly high neither. It's middle of the road. CMoys vary in sound and capability based on the opamp in the circuit. CMoy just describes a type of amplifier.

Yes, a CMoy class amplifier can drive a K701 without clipping. Permutations of the circuit have shown up in the pint, pimeta, mini3, etc. If it's current you need an off the shelf build of the Mini3 (basically CMoy with a buffered ground channel to prevent contamination of the power rails) will supply more than you can ever need...200 mA @ 9V due to the AD8397.