[toby23]

Hello fellow Head-fi'ers,
 
I love music and until recently, listened to a mix of purchased albums and imported CD's via itunes at my desk and on my iphone via the default player with my Sony MDR-1R headphones. At the beginning of this year, I decided to switch to digital and subscribed to Spotify Premium.
 
Last week I discovered Tidal Hifi and the world of hiqh quality audio opened up and swallowed me. I am now the proud owner of an Oppo Ha-2 DAC and a set of Oppo PM-3 headphones for mobile listening (4hr commute daily) and a pair of Beyerdynamic 990 Pro 250 ohm headphones for gaming, that are connected to my PC via the Creative Zx soundcard 3.5mm jack.
 
I am learning how to use these new toys and have some questions. My goal is to get the sound as close to when it was recorded in the studio as possible. I like the feeling of being in the studio with the bands and don't like it when music sounds recorded, if that makes sense. I want a drum to sound like a drum really does when you're sitting in front of it.
 
My questions..
 
1. Would I gain anything by connecting the DAC between the soundcard and the BD 990's for gaming?
 
2. I don't own Amarra but the Creative SBx Pro Studio control panel considerably enhances the sound of different genres, from video podcast to games to music. Am I making a huge mistake using this control panel to adjust the sound? Should I be using something else or should I just switch it off? I also use Soundflower on my MacPro as an EQ when listening to Spotify/Tidal.
 
3. Does lossless music need an EQ? I thought lossless was as the studio intended and should not be enhanced with an EQ?
 
3. Using the Spotify EQ on Premium quality songs, I get a much better sound than without the EQ but should I be using an EQ at all in combination with the HA-2 and PM-3s?
 
4. As I cannot use Can Opener to access my offline files from Tidal on my iphone 6, is there any other way to enhance the sound?
To my untrained ears, the music sounds rather flat from Tidal Hifi without any EQ, is this how it should sound? So far, I've only tested Tidal with the Sony MDR-1R's and BD T51i's. If I use Tidal on the PC and use the Creative SBx Pro Studio, I get a much clearer sound. Am I doing this all wrong?
 
5. Should I get Amarra for Tidal? If I understood correctly, this will give me an EQ, hopefully with a preset for the PM-3's, and allow me to save EQ settings per album, is that right?
 
I mainly listen to podcasts and music during my 4hr daily commute. At home, I also listen to some music but spend more of my spare time gaming on the PC with the BD 990's.
 
Lots of questions and I appreciate your help and guidance on my journey into audiophilia.

Thanks,
Toby

 

[worldcat]

New too!

 

[Nemoona]

I Can't help you with anything regarding Spotify, amarra, or can opener.  But I may be able to assist on a couple other frontiers.
 
To your 1st question:  Connecting a DAC between a soundcard and your headphones may or may not increase the sound quality depending on the quality of the sound card and the quality of the DAC.  If you haven't upgraded your sound card, it is likely a DAC will improve the audio quality.  But beware, your headphones have 250 ohms of impedance and DAC's were just made to convert the digital signal to analog, which means you would need to buy an amp to go with your DAC, or just buy a DAC/Amp.
 
To your 3rd question:  EQ's are personal preference, so you don't need an EQ for lossless if you don't want one (In case you didn't know what EQ was, it simply means "equalizer" and it adjust the loudness of different frequencies: i.e. bass, treble)
 
If you thing your music doesn't sound like it should in a studio, it might be the equipment you now use or previously used.  for example, if you previously had cheap headphones that were extremely bass heavy, and you moved to more natural and clear headphones, you'd think the new headphones were bad because you'd think they had unnaturally small amounts of bass.  Or if your new headphones were extremely flat, clear, and transparent, you'd think they weren't compelling enough.  If you use your headphones for a while and get used to them, you will be able to see differences between them and lesser headphones.
 
Hope this helped,
Reply if you need any other answers

 

[Music Alchemist]

The master determines the sound of an album. You know how when you get a remastered CD, it sounds different than the original version? Same concept for downloadable files and streaming.
 
Lossless just means that there is no loss of data. It's highly unlikely that you would hear a difference between lossy 256 kbps AAC files and lossless when the files come from the same master.
 
Your headphones make the most difference in sound in terms of your equipment. No headphone has a perfectly balanced frequency response, so there is always room for improvement. Here are some resources related to equalizing your headphones.
 
http://www.sonarworks.com/headphones/overview
http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587703/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial-part-2
http://www.head-fi.org/t/615417/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-advanced-tutorial-in-progress

 

[toby23]

Thanks for your help Music Alchemist. I know what you mean but I can hear the difference between Apple's 256 kbps AAC, Spotify's 320 kbps Ogg and Tidal's 1411 kbps.
I guess they are all from different masters but it's just a guess. Tidal's Hifi quality provides the clarity that I am looking for in a digital service, I haven't found anything else that comes close yet.
The sound of Tidal without an EQ is great on the PM-3's, they are very good and I actually hear subtleties that I haven't noticed before in tracks, which is what I was hoping for.
I can't wait until I can use Tidal with an EQ and this is why I prefer Can Opener's approach to EQ, allowing you to adjust by warmth of tone, which is very intuitive.

 

[Beyakusenn]

Hello Toby and welcome to Head-fi.
 
The comments given before are already very useful. I'll try answering your questions my own way.
 
1) The standard internal sound card of most computers is not very good, but if you want surround effects for gaming that use your sound card there is no way around it. Music DACs are stereo and don't work with software for surround sound simulation on headphones.
If you want to keep the stereo sound, you can bypass your internal sound card with a USB-DAC and that will probably be better than what most internal sound cards can deliver.
 
2) I am not familiar with the software you mention, but I do know that equalization with software can lead to very different results. I have tried various equalizers with up to 250 bands, but most of them add distortion to the sound. The 31 band equalizer for Foobar2000 has been the best free equalizer for me up till now. Not too complicated, but with enough variation.
 
3)The PM-3s are quite neutral headphones. This means that if you use equalization, you'll probably make the music sound 'less realistic'. Don't be to hung up on having a perfectly neutral set-up. Everyone has different ears and different preferences, so just adjust the sound to your liking. It's all about enjoying the music.
 
4)I have no experience with iPhones.
You are probably experiencing the music differently because of the way your brain perceives the sound in different ways. It might be interesting to read about psychoacoustics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustics
The sound isn't necessarily better in an objective way, but if you enjoy it more it definitely is better for you.
 
5) I have no experience with this software.
 
 

  Thanks for your help Music Alchemist. I know what you mean but I can hear the difference between Apple's 256 kbps AAC, Spotify's 320 kbps Ogg and Tidal's 1411 kbps.
I guess they are all from different masters but it's just a guess. Tidal's Hifi quality provides the clarity that I am looking for in a digital service, I haven't found anything else that comes close yet.
The sound of Tidal without an EQ is great on the PM-3's, they are very good and I actually hear subtleties that I haven't noticed before in tracks, which is what I was hoping for.
I can't wait until I can use Tidal with an EQ and this is why I prefer Can Opener's approach to EQ, allowing you to adjust by warmth of tone, which is very intuitive.

I think it's good for you to try doing a double blind test with a lossless file and the same song converted to a lossy format. Till now there has not been any ABX blind test in which someone consistently could tell lossless apart from high bitrate lossy audio. You might be able to hear some difference, but then you have what I'd call 'golden ears'. Here is a video that explains quite a bit on ABX-testing and it's merits:

Spoiler: Lossless vs. Lossy ABX Testing

 
Different masters matter quite a bit when it comes to audio quality. One way to judge masters is looking at the dynamic range. That is the difference between the average loudness of a track and it's peaks. Good recordings have larger dynamic ranges than poor recordings. Sadly enough, the music industry has been using dynamic range compression for more than two decades now. The recordings have become louder and louder, while sacrificing quite a bit of the audio quality. The reason for this development to occur is that louder albums sell better. The human ear is made in such a way that it perceives louder sound as more detailed, open, airy, while in truth it might be even worse than the quieter version of the sound. This development called the 'loudness war' has led to many poor masters including remastered versions of previously well mastered albums.
 
Remember that the chain is always as strong as it's weakest link. I prefer to buy the albums myself, but I can imagine you like Tidal for it's ease of use. Remember that even Tidal has a lot of poorly mastered music. Most modern pop music is still of mediocre quality at best. The headphones remain the weakest link in the chain. For DACs, I think your Oppo HA-2 is probably as good as it gets for us mortals. Some would disagree, but I haven't heard significant sound improvements with high-end DACs myself. Different amps might make an audible difference if you get headphones that are hard to drive (the headphones you have are easy to drive). Some claim that cables make a difference. I say only connectors can make a difference (poor connectors make bad contact) and that the cables themselves don't matter at all.
 
Keep an open mind and expand your knowledge. It took me years to get to where I am and I'm still learning new things.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Yeah, you need to take a lossless file, then convert it to 256 kbps AAC yourself, using a program like dBpoweramp or foobar2000; otherwise, you may just be listening to a different master.

 

[toby23]

Beyakusenn, thank you for such an informative reply. You've really helped.
Do I need a profile for Amarra for Tidal for my PM-3's or is it 'ok' to use the presets?
I don't know if there is a right or wrong way to do this or if I should let my ears be the judge.
 
After an evening of testing, I am keeping the HA-2 as that adds a lot to the sound, both via desktop and iphone.
I don't think I could adequately describe what it does to the sound but it sounds better with the HA-2 connected.
 
I am not sure about Amarra for Tidal as I 'think' that I could have achieved the same with Soundflower which is a free system EQ for Mac, perhaps not and maybe I misunderstood what Amarra is doing.
 
I downloaded a sample album from HDtracks and was blown away by the quality. I have never heard such high definition audio on such good headphones before.. wow.. but 2gb per album... wow again..
 
The PM-3 are the best headphones that I have ever owned and while unsure at first, I think I was expecting more for some reason, I am suitably impressed with the quality.
 
I also did a lot of comparisons between Spotify, Tidal and Apple Music tonight. It is much harder to hear the difference than I originally thought but if you compare A-B-C, it is obvious to my ears that Tidal has more clarity and definition but that is not to say that the others are bad. My personal preference is for Tidal, I just wish I had a collection of albums from HDtracks!
 
Thanks to all of you for your help on my journey..

 

[Beyakusenn]

  Beyakusenn, thank you for such an informative reply. You've really helped.
Do I need a profile for Amarra for Tidal for my PM-3's or is it 'ok' to use the presets?
I don't know if there is a right or wrong way to do this or if I should let my ears be the judge.

You are welcome. I'm glad I could be of some help.
 
It is 'ok' to use presets if you like them, but they often colour the sound in unrealistic ways. The people I know here on Head-fi don't like using presets and I don't like doing that either.
There is no right or wrong when it's about enjoying the music. You can learn about different preferences like 'dark' sound (bassy), bright sound (prominent treble), v-shaped sound signature (elevated bass & treble), 'warm' sound (accentuated midrange) and get to know your own preferences, but let your ears be the final judge.
 

  I am not sure about Amarra for Tidal as I 'think' that I could have achieved the same with Soundflower which is a free system EQ for Mac, perhaps not and maybe I misunderstood what Amarra is doing.

I just had a look at Amarra and if the software is designed well (which I think it is), it could be useful to you. At least it looks more user-friendly than Soundflower. You'd still need to learn more about equalization so I recommend you look at the links provided by Music Alchemist.
 

 
I downloaded a sample album from HDtracks and was blown away by the quality. I have never heard such high definition audio on such good headphones before.. wow.. but 2gb per album... wow again..

Not everything on HDtracks is good. Their samples are great of course and that is because they are well recorded and mastered.
The size of those albums is probably caused by the sample rate and bit-rate that you get from HDtracks. Physics tell us that our human ears don't need such high definition files. 44.1 kHz / 16 bit is already lossless and completely transparent to human ears. The file size is also much smaller than the 192 kHz / 24 bit (or even higher) that you get from HDtracks. Those high sample and bit-rates are only necessary if you want to edit audio while making sure that no audible data is lost. So if you are a musician and want to make a remix, those huge files are useful. For just listening there is no benefit.
 

 
The PM-3 are the best headphones that I have ever owned and while unsure at first, I think I was expecting more for some reason, I am suitably impressed with the quality.
 
I also did a lot of comparisons between Spotify, Tidal and Apple Music tonight. It is much harder to hear the difference than I originally thought but if you compare A-B-C, it is obvious to my ears that Tidal has more clarity and definition but that is not to say that the others are bad. My personal preference is for Tidal, I just wish I had a collection of albums from HDtracks!
 
Thanks to all of you for your help on my journey..

Remember that the higher you go in price, the less significant the improvements of your equipment will be. the difference between a sub $70 Senn and the HD518 is much more obvious than the difference between the HD518 and the HD650. I'd even say that with the current high-end headphones what you get (and keep) is much more dependent on personal preferences than on objective improvements.
 
Your comparison could have some expectation-bias in it. Let a friend change the streaming service for you without telling you which one is playing. It might give you some interesting results.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Remember that the higher you go in price, the less significant the improvements of your equipment will be. the difference between a sub $70 Senn and the HD518 is much more obvious than the difference between the HD518 and the HD650. I'd even say that with the current high-end headphones what you get (and keep) is much more dependent on personal preferences than on objective improvements.

 
The best part is when you find an affordable headphone that you like more than much more expensive ones.

 
(However, the best high-end headphones do have objective benefits. Very cool document about that here.)

 

[Beyakusenn]

   
The best part is when you find an affordable headphone that you like more than much more expensive ones.

 
(However, the best high-end headphones do have objective benefits. Very cool document about that here.)

Interesting document! Thanks for sharing
 
EDIT: The measurements say my main headphones are a true flagship! Even though it has not been the flagship of the company for 20 years already: the STAX SR-404.