[Dynamo5561]

WA7 3rd gen is very quiet. I'm using Sony IER-Z1R with my personal unit. I've also tested with AKG K3003 and Westone W60 via the 4.4mm output.

EMI from other electronics (wifi router, cellphone, NAS drives, etc.) can be audible if it is at a very high level or noise from the AC outlet.

Try moving the WA7 to another location for testing purpose.

Another thought is maybe the IEM cable? Try a different cable and the 6.3mm output with the IEM?

Thanks for the support. I already tried different IEMs, cables, headphones. Also I used both headphone outputs. Relocated the device mutliple times, removed all electrical devices like router, other amps, dacs, pc etc. I tried a lot today. There is an operational noise (can only be heard via headphones) that is constantly there. Additionally when turning the device on and sometimes when turning off there is a loud pop sound. So loud I have fear it could damage my headphones.

I can give it back to the original seller or send it to the US for check by WA. I like the sound itself and the device so I will probably try the repair route. But I would be really disappointed if it's considered to be within tolerances. That's why I am asking here in the forum to get some better understanding about the experience of other users first.

 

[utdeep]

@HiFiGuy528 - it does seem strange that a few of us have had this issue when other equipment in the same situation doesn’t have the same issue. I had a WA7 2nd Gen with TP that had no problems at all in the same location.

Mike at Woo helped me switch tubes and it helped. Taking my Orbi router away also helped. However, I don't ask for that from any of my other equipment. It's still not perfect. I barely hear it with my Audeze 4Z, but I can definitely hear much more with my Sennheiser IE900.

 

[HiFiGuy528]

I spent some time testing a production WA7 3rd gen using two of my favorite IEMs, Sony IER-Z1R (40 Ohms @ 103 db) and Westone W60 (25 Ohms @ 117 db) both are wired to 4.4mm balanced.

- min. of 1–2 minutes for the tubes warm-up before listening. The stock RCA tubes are lowest noise. My EH upgrade tube has a higher noise-floor.

No music playing, volume knob at 10 to 3 o'clock position. Music test track is Piano Sonata No. 14 (classical), Apple Music link:

On Sony IER-Z1R (40 Ohms @ 103 db), no music playing: can barely hear any hiss noise from amplifier. With music playing: the hiss in the recording is higher than the amplifier's noise-floor.

On Westone W60 (25 Ohms @ 117 db), no music playing: can hear a low level hiss noise from amplifier, similar to the hiss noise from Active Noise Canceling (ANC) headphones as an example. With this IEM, it is very microphonic. Touching the cable or the jack you can hear the sounds clearly. With music playing: the hiss in the recording is higher than the amplifier's noise-floor.

Using a high power output amplifier like the WA7 3rd gen (1.5w) with an IEM that's rated @ 117 db sensitivity and no music is playing, a low-level background hiss is normal and expected.

UPDATE: for kicks I tested the Westone W60 on Sony solid state amp/DAC in the photo. A very very low level hiss can be heard when no music is playing, certainly lower than WA7 but not dead silent like when the unit is powered OFF.

 

[Dynamo5561]

Thanks @HiFiGuy528 for taking the time and testing intensively. I really appreciate it. What you describe is exactly what I would expect from the device. It's a tube amplifier, it will not be dead silent when music is not playing. That's totally fine for me. However in my case the noise is clearly audible when music is playing. There fore I assume it's a defect in my device (which of course can happen, even if I am the first one ) I'll send the device for inspection.

 

[wordfool]

I would definitely buy a gen 3 for the balanced, extra power, and upgraded dac if I could use my tube psu with it.

Any idea what DAC the 3rd gen uses? The gen 2 Fireflies has an ES9018K2M DAC but I have yet to find the detailed gen 3 specs. I would hope Woo has upped it to a 9028-level chip at least, but I've no idea.

 

[some dude]

Any idea what DAC the 3rd gen uses? The gen 2 Fireflies has an ES9018K2M DAC but I have yet to find the detailed gen 3 specs. I would hope Woo has upped it to a 9028-level chip at least, but I've no idea.

Not sure but yeah hopefully it’s upgraded from the gen 2, I love the amp but the dac is just ok. I hooked up my portable ifi micro signature as the dac and it it definitely sounded better imo. Its got me looking at separate desktops like a RME ADI-2 or a Denafrips Ares II. If anyone has any experience using a wa7 with either dac I would be interested to hear about your experience. The parametric eq is pretty appealing and having the built in amp might be better for watching shows or playing games? I guess I’m open to whatever people think is the best pairing within the wa7 as long as it’s not more than the RME.

 

[the1andonly]

Any idea what DAC the 3rd gen uses? The gen 2 Fireflies has an ES9018K2M DAC but I have yet to find the detailed gen 3 specs. I would hope Woo has upped it to a 9028-level chip at least, but I've no idea.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-from-woo-audio-wa7-fireflies-3rd-gen.959824/post-16573419

press release (or seemingly copy from it) says
" new ESS SABRE DAC chip"
https://www.esstech.com/products-overview/digital-to-analog-converters/sabre-audiophile-dacs/
looking here the 2nd Gen chip was
"ESS Sabre ES9018 K2M"
so their are 3 tiers "above" it

If you go back and look at the text of 3rd Gen description for clues

• ESS SABRE Audiophile DAC up to 24-bit/384kHz PCM, and 128DSD/5.6MHz

vs the 2nd Gen

• ESS SABRE DAC 24 bit, 384kHz PCM, and up to 128DSD

unfortunately if you ctrl+f audiophile in all the descriptions for all chip tiers it says "Audiophile" in the title or text referencing products so Audiophile gives us very little
However:
384kHz rules out these chips
ES9038Q2M -768kHz
ES9023P -200kHz
ES9033Q -768kHz
9006A - 192kHz
9080 - 768kHz
ES9026PRO - 768kHz
ES9028PRO - 768kHz
ES9038PRO - 768kHz

That is the entire Flagship "PRO" series ruled out(but does leave room for ES9028 C2M/Q2M) assuming it's description means it doesn't go past 384kHz....
Anyone can speculate on the rest, no idea what the addition of "/5.6MHz" means or it's significant.

I think it may be the ES9068AS which is the only one possible that is described in title as "Audiophile" and one of only 2, the other being ruled out(for different PCM value than 384kHz) described as "32bit Stereo Audiophile DAC*"... but again the 2 categories without "Audiophile" in the title say it in the description lol, so Woo Audio pages technically could be referencing anything but it does seem like more details were added on purpose.

Anyway TL: DR it does seem from the text on here it was changed but what chip is not clear, gotta ask, cannot find this info anywhere via multiple google searches or GL searching.

That said I am still unsure why you guys don't like the 2nd gen chip so much? Is it that much different from the ES9018S? They are brothers in name, and of course the S has more channels than the K2m(whatever that means;n00b) I actually decided to bite the bullet and am running my Oppo HA-1's preamp to the 1st Gen, the Oppo has a ES9018S... this is the same ES9018S used by the DAC/AMP in the HE-1 Orpheus... not sure but I think maybe there were "better" chips like the 9028 around then but in my mind it has beaten everything I have tried vs it... I can see why they used it, it's almost perfect mix of smooth, resolving and detailed IMO, sure a 9028PRO & 9038PRO will "blow it away"(see slight improvement) for raw forward detail but it's also sterile as hell, I actually assumed all SABRE chips were like this and was shocked when I first heard a D90SE. Heck I prefer the TI Burr Brown in the Gen 1 to the D90SE... Is the ES 9018K2m really that different?

anyway the only way to know the chip is to ask I guess worst that can be happen is they tell you it's a secret, lol... But I will add this thing is freaking amazing with the smoothly implemented ES9018S of the Oppo HA-1. I almost feel vindicated after years of loving this DAC despite people calling it outdated vs the newer SABRE chips, then a year ago I found the Orpheus has the same chip and I realized I have very great taste, should I keep tooting my own horn?

(to anyone who doesn't like second gen chip, not "calling you out" I honestly have no idea of the differences on the K2M and on my ES9018S it sounds AMAZING so I am curious honestly of the differences to the K2M and just bit confused because the "better" more sterile chips seems to turn this already not super tubey amp more away from the tubey/smooth sound, but maybe that is what you prefer? Interested to hear your opinions!)

 

[HiFiGuy528]

We don't want to play the DAC numbers game in marketing our products.

The DAC chip is a tiny piece of a large puzzle. How the chip is implanted is critical to achieve good sound quality. It's easy to make an amplifier to make sound but not easy to make music. We care most about how the music sounds in the final product.

 

[the1andonly]

We don't want to play the DAC numbers game in marketing our products.

The DAC chip is a tiny piece of a large puzzle. How the chip is implanted is critical to achieve good sound quality. It's easy to make an amplifier to make sound but not easy to make music. We care most about how the music sounds in the final product.

The Burr-Brown in my WA7 sounds fantastic, I have no doubt the implementation of the ES9018K2M is fantastically balanced as well because the burr-brown has enough performance for me and my preferred smooth sound. Owning the HA-1 gave me a lot of insight into the fact that a lot more besides the chip matters and I think everyone who has tried a large number of different devices has a strong preference for implementation vs specs. I still switch to the onboard DAC when I am listening to certain TV shows on my cans as it's extremely cohesive in making sure everything is absolutely enjoyable!

That said, I also love good mystery show

Cannot wait to try the LCD-3F I have been waiting for to on the WA7.

 

[cjarrett]

Ordered this along with the Diana TC to de-clutter my desktop. WFH really overloaded my standing desk so I have my yggy/ragnarok combo on the window behind it. Hoping this will declutter and return me back to my desired desk space without compromising SQ too much. My first tube amp as well, but I messed around with my buddies first gen fireflies (IIRC, might have been a different amp from Woo) many years ago. This will be fun

I'm happy to hear that it can also power my Verite Closed, and from reading the thread it seems like it will also do okay with the 1266 TCs as well.

Now for the month long wait....

 

[some dude]

Ordered this along with the Diana TC to de-clutter my desktop. WFH really overloaded my standing desk so I have my yggy/ragnarok combo on the window behind it. Hoping this will declutter and return me back to my desired desk space without compromising SQ too much. My first tube amp as well, but I messed around with my buddies first gen fireflies (IIRC, might have been a different amp from Woo) many years ago. This will be fun

I'm happy to hear that it can also power my Verite Closed, and from reading the thread it seems like it will also do okay with the 1266 TCs as well.

Now for the month long wait....

I really like my gen 2 w/tp with my VC. Volume at 12 is too loud for most people but I like it there, if you got a gen 3 it’s even more power. It’s definitely better than my wa8 by a little bit but my wa7 has some upgraded gold lions and EH gold pins in it. I’m sure hooked to a yggy it will sound even better. I got a mojo 2 coming to act as a dac/pre/dsp so I’ll be waiting to see how that goes once they ship. I was gonna do a more intense desktop but the mojo 2 will get way more use since I can run it at work with my wa8 as well. Hope you end up loving your wa7 as much as I love mine.

PS the gold lion 12au7 sound amazing if you got the tube psu. Mine just came and all I could say is wow. I had the rca recommended upgraded rca ones in before and it sounded good but the gold lions really blew me away with how good they sound.

 

[drmmr]

Not sure if this is the correct place to ask this, but Woo Audio has the gen 2 on sale and I was wondering if it's still worth picking up? I've been looking for a nice dac/amp combo and I don't need the balanced or pre outs of the 3rd gen. Other than those updates, what else makes this worth $500 more than the gen 2?

 

[utdeep]

Nothing - I have the Gen 3 and prefer the Gen 2. However, I like the space savings (no TP power supply) and the 4.4 output.

There is something about the stock Sovtek tubes on the Gen 1 and Gen 2 that I really, really miss.

 

[cjarrett]

4.4 output is pretty big for me. I've got mostly 4.4 cables (since I have the Sony WMA1 DAP) for my campfire Audio IEMs and ZMF Headphones if not balanced XLR, so this was a big selling point for me to use my other gear outside of walking around. Since I'm WFH for a while, I haven't used them nearly at all!

 

[the1andonly]

When you get into an unexpected half-hour long business call right after you turn on your WA7 and as soon as it ends you realize they have been warming up the whole time. You put on your planars, and you had your favorite song queued up.