New Focal Utopia for 2022: impressions

[number1sixerfan]

Yes, perhaps I should have been more detailed about 'what I like' (although I'd already said quite a bit!). Perhaps we differ on whether soundstage, imaging and timbre are measurable - I would argue they are to some extent. But, even if we differ, I would agree that discussions don't need to be full of measurements in order to be interesting. To take your example, I think it's interesting to offer a comparison between the new and old Utopia - because it gives us all a point of reference that we can understand. I've mentioned before that I prefer the old Utopia and tried to explain the differences I hear (without resorting to measurements). I find your comparison to the Aperio interesting, because I've heard it, and I can make some sense of it. I should have said that impressions can indeed be interesting if they really do give us a basis to 'synthesize' them ... I would argue by giving some reference point that we can understand.

I'm totally open to them being more measurable than I understand them to be and would love to hear more (almost mentioned that). But to be clear, I think the convo here overall has been really fruitful and I also hope the mods allow it to stay. And agree with your last point and few sentences entirely, the quality of subjective impressions, inclusive of valuable reference points are very important.

Do you currently own the Utopia? What was your thoughts in hearing the Aperio against it or just in general?

 

[jamesjames]

I'm totally open to them being more measurable than I understand them to be and would love to hear more (almost mentioned that). But to be clear, I think the convo here overall has been really fruitful and I also hope the mods allow it to stay. And agree with your last point and few sentences entirely, the quality of subjective impressions, inclusive of valuable reference points are very important.

Do you currently own the Utopia? What was your thoughts in hearing the Aperio against it or just in general?

I still own the old Utopia, but it's been with someone else for a while now. I thought the Aperio was truly impressive - and the system approach raised the possibility for me that incoming digital signal quality might not always be so important as the subsequent DSP dimension - which I hadn't considered seriously before. Some might argue there's some homogenizing going on, but anything even halfway good seemed full of life to me. It might seem strange to say, but I nevertheless prefer the Utopia (and a number of other dynamic phones). I think this is due to my reservations re e-stats and planars. Without getting too far into the measurement controversy again, I speculate that the poor measurable time-domain behaviour of all stats and planars is in fact audible to some small extent, which to my ear results in the slightly synthetic quality I feel they all share. (I owned the SR-009S for years, for example, and liked it - but not enough to keep). I feel the Utopia is extremely good with acoustic instrument timbre - one of the best out there. Re imaging, timbre, etc, I don't think I've got much original to say. I think there are some fairly predictable engineering points re midrange presence band shaping that tend to accommodate 'spatious' presentation and delivery of transient information through that band which the HD800S exemplifies. Some other phones vary these parameters with some interesting results (eg, MySphere, ADX5000).

 

[number1sixerfan]

I still own the old Utopia, but it's been with someone else for a while now. I thought the Aperio was truly impressive - and the system approach raised the possibility for me that incoming digital signal quality might not always be so important as the subsequent DSP dimension - which I hadn't considered seriously before. Some might argue there's some homogenizing going on, but anything even halfway good seemed full of life to me. It might seem strange to say, but I nevertheless prefer the Utopia (and a number of other dynamic phones). I think this is due to my reservations re e-stats and planars. Without getting too far into the measurement controversy again, I speculate that the poor measurable time-domain behaviour of all stats and planars is in fact audible to some small extent, which to my ear results in the slightly synthetic quality I feel they all share. (I owned the SR-009S for years, for example, and liked it - but not enough to keep). I feel the Utopia is extremely good with acoustic instrument timbre - one of the best out there. Re imaging, timbre, etc, I don't think I've got much original to say. I think there are some fairly predictable engineering points re midrange presence band shaping that tend to accommodate 'spatious' presentation and delivery of transient information through that band which the HD800S exemplifies. Some other phones vary these parameters with some interesting results (eg, MySphere, ADX5000).

Put some spacing between these paragraphs man lol. But this was a rewarding and insightful read. I also think the Utopia is great with timbral instrument accuracy btw. And I'm now thinking it may be worth picking up an OG pair to supplement the Aperio sale. Thank you for sharing!!

 

[Sonic Defender]

Yes please, big blocks of text are unappealing.

 

[up late]

I still own the old Utopia, but it's been with someone else for a while now. I thought the Aperio was truly impressive - and the system approach raised the possibility for me that incoming digital signal quality might not always be so important as the subsequent DSP dimension - which I hadn't considered seriously before. Some might argue there's some homogenizing going on, but anything even halfway good seemed full of life to me. It might seem strange to say, but I nevertheless prefer the Utopia (and a number of other dynamic phones). I think this is due to my reservations re e-stats and planars. Without getting too far into the measurement controversy again, I speculate that the poor measurable time-domain behaviour of all stats and planars is in fact audible to some small extent, which to my ear results in the slightly synthetic quality I feel they all share. (I owned the SR-009S for years, for example, and liked it - but not enough to keep). I feel the Utopia is extremely good with acoustic instrument timbre - one of the best out there. Re imaging, timbre, etc, I don't think I've got much original to say. I think there are some fairly predictable engineering points re midrange presence band shaping that tend to accommodate 'spatious' presentation and delivery of transient information through that band which the HD800S exemplifies. Some other phones vary these parameters with some interesting results (eg, MySphere, ADX5000).

have you heard the zmf caldera?

 

[jamesjames]

have you heard the zmf caldera?

Only in store I'm afraid. It struck me as quite romantic in its presentation - some distance from the kind of presentation I generally prefer. I was impressed by the sense of space it could conjure up - and it gave extraordinary weight to lower frequencies. But I thought it shared the kind of synthetic character I've mentioned above - although perhaps not to the same extent, say, as HiFiMan phones - which to my ear are particularly unnatural in their presentation. By way of further planar comparison, my recollection is that the Elite is more balanced - I thought at the time it was the most persuasive planar/e-stat I've heard. (Incidentally, it measures better than other planars/e-stats in terms of mid/high time-domain behaviour.) All of that said, I find the Utopias (old and new) considerably more convincing in terms of the presentation of acoustic instruments and voice.

 

[up late]

Only in store I'm afraid. It struck me as quite romantic in its presentation - some distance from the kind of presentation I generally prefer. I was impressed by the sense of space it could conjure up - and it gave extraordinary weight to lower frequencies. But I thought it shared the kind of synthetic character I've mentioned above - although perhaps not to the same extent, say, as HiFiMan phones - which to my ear are particularly unnatural in their presentation. By way of further planar comparison, I feel the Elite is much more balanced - the most persuasive planar/e-stat I've heard. (Incidentally, it measures better than other planars/e-stats in terms of mid/high time-domain behaviour.) All of that said, I find the Utopias (old and new) considerably more convincing in terms of the presentation of acoustic instruments and voice.

fair enough. the caldera avoids the somewhat artificial timbral quality that i associate with planar magnetic headphones. it's been too long since i've heard an estat to comment on that aspect but they weren't for me.

 

[jamesjames]

fair enough. the caldera avoids the somewhat artificial timbral quality that i associate with planar magnetic headphones. it's been too long since i've heard an estat to comment on that aspect but they weren't for me.

Yes, for what it's worth, I agree the Caldera did seem better on a short listen than most planars - but that was on the basis of not much time with them. Have you heard the Elite? I did own it for a while - and thought it was very good indeed. It was only after some time that the warmth of the presentation began to trouble me. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that those who like the Utopia (particularly the new model) also like the Elite.

 

[up late]

Yes, for what it's worth, I agree the Caldera did seem better on a short listen than most planars - but that was on the basis of not much time with them. Have you heard the Elite? I did own it for a while - and thought it was very good indeed. It was only after some time that the warmth of the presentation began to trouble me. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that those who like the Utopia (particularly the new model) also like the Elite.

yes, i've heard the elite and found it pleasant but it still had that artificial timbral quality to my ears. definitely a warm presentation with sparkly treble as i heard it. i think that the caldera is the more balanced and 'natural' sounding headphone.

 

[jamesjames]

yes, i've heard the elite and found it pleasant but it still had that artificial timbral quality to my ears. definitely a warm presentation with sparkly treble as i heard it. i think that the caldera is the more balanced and 'natural' sounding headphone.

You might well be right. The Caldara imaging is also at least as good as I remember it.