[that Linux guy]

OK, I'll get straight to the point. I use my computer for movies and music, and I have somewhat of an ear for music. I consider myself a budding audiophile. Unfortunately, I have not near the equipment, nor the wallet that some of you have. I have around $150 for this upgrade to my setup, which currently consists of an Audigy SE sound card, and a couple yr old set of Sennheiser HD280 PROs. I listen to every thing, but mostly rock music, new and old.

For a sound cards, I've kinda narrowed it down to the HT Omega Claro or Asus Xonar D2, but I'm wondering if there are any other cards in the same price range that are worth looking at.

For an amp/DAC, I've been told the Zero is the best bang-for-the-buck. I'm wondering if it would give better sound than the above cards though.

As for headphones, I really like my Sennheiser, but I've also seen a couple models from BeyerDynamic and Ultrasone that I like. I've ultimately had my eye on a set of Grado SR125s.

Any ideas?

 

[thebathingape]

I had the Zero Dac/Amp to test for a week w/ my DV336se and Asus D2X.
First thing. The Zero amp sounded very boring compared to my Darkvoice 336se (yes i know it SS against tube

), so i ended up using the DAC from the zero and compared it to the Xonar D2X.

The zero DAC was less musical than the Xonar D2X. The sound was more "correct" on the Zero DAC. Everything sounded more controlled than with the Xonar, but probably at the expense of musicality. Too dry for my tastes.

For its price i am sure the zero is a great deal, and it is unfair to compare against more expensive equipment, but i was happier with the Asus D2X/DV 336se combo than the ZeroDAC/336se.

I have ordered a Cambridge Dacmagic so i will see how that sounds compared to the ZeroDac.

I haven't tried the HT Claro, but i would go for an Asus Xonar and a dedicated amp instead of the Zero DAC/amp. Is 150 bucks your total budget incl soundcard??

 

[that Linux guy]

bathingape, thanks for your input.

My budget is for a single part. I wish I had more money to throw at the setup, but sadly I don't. I just upgraded my video card for gaming purposes, I'm getting a couple IT certs soon, and my woman and I are saving to move to Florida. Money is tied up for now.

I think I'll go with the sound card over the amp/dac, then. Unless I get different headphones, I don't think an amp will be necessary. My current HD280s are only 64 Ohms resistance. That can't warrant an amp, can it? I've heard mixed results about amping my 280s.

I imagine the Claro would sound very similar to the Xonar. Most of the HTPC/audiophile cards from Auzentech, HT Omega, and Bluegears use the C-media 8788 OxygenHD sound processor. The Xonar D2/D2X uses the ASUS AV200 which is a re-worked Cmedia 8788.

 

[thebathingape]

Heya.

I haven't heard the zero dac/amp with other headphones than the DT 770/80, so there might be other people that have different experiences with it than I. From my experience with it though i would skip the zero and save up for something better and more musical.

So yes just a new soundcard doesn't sound too bad and then go for a bigger upgrade later

 

[les_garten]

Hi,
The Zero is a Nice reasonable DAC with a decent Head amp. A separate Head amp will sound better if you dump some money there. There is nothing wrong with the DAC in the Zero. However it is ripe for modding as can be seen in the Zero threads and the FrankenZero threads. You can radically improve the DAC, and somewhat improve the HeadAmp. There are tons of options for OpAmp mods to the Zero. There is also the Yulong DAH1 that is more than you want to spend. It has a Nicer HeadAmp. Then there is the Claro Halo designed around a HeadAmp SoundCard.

The Kewl thing about an External DAC is pretty much you are out of the SoundCard upgrade BS. Get a Good DAC and use your SC just for Digital Tx out of the computer.

If I were you, or if I were me, here's how I do things. The end resolving device is what you listen to. Put a Claro Halo in your Puter, get a $2500 Northstar DAC, and a $1000 DV 337SE Tube amp and hook it up to $9.95 Koss crap from Walmart, and you just wasted Thousands of Dollars. Because you are listening to $9.95 Koss crap.

Or, get a $20 SC and hook it up to$700 Denon D7000's and see which one sounds better. Are the Denon's being perfectly driven, no! Do they have a pristine source, no! But I'll bet they sound better than all the Electronics in China driving that Koss.

So if it were me, I would plan on the long haul upgrade path. If you "Plan" on getting an external DAC, this means you don't need much SC. If you don "Plan" on a DAC, then you SC becomes your DAC and Pre-AMP section, if not your AMP itself.

So first, PHONES I would say. Get good Phones and they will do you for a long time. I still have the same speakers I bought in like 1991. Buy good stuff in the beginning and you don't get so caught up in the upgrade game.

So what's next, I would do a HeadAmp.

Then you have to decide for "Sure" whether to DAC or not, no DAC=Get a Great SC, Yes DAC=Get a Decent SC.

Cables come in here at this point, unless you run into issues with shielding somewhere along this path and have to do it earlier.

One advantage of the Zero is you can use it as a Headamp and DAC now, and then separate it later to just using the DAC with an external HeadAmp, and then replacing the DAC. Very growable and very modifiable with different OPAMPS. Additionally you can get all the Opamps you want for free as free samples if you want to make it sound a little different. This can be done with some SC's also.

One last thing I'll say about HT Omega. They provide awesome supposrt, REAL support. You are on your own with Creative. I won't buy any of their Junk again. If you send an email to the HT team, you get an answer from an engineer if need be. I don't know if the same can be said of ASus, I buy a lot of their MB's, and love them. I've never seen support like HT Omega in the PC sector though. They also fix driver issues if they have them.

 

[that Linux guy]

Lots of great info Les. Thank you!

That definitely makes me consider the DAC vs the cans. What cans would you recommend? I prefer over the ear, but I've heard awesome things about Grados for rock music. I've also heard mixed results about thier comfort. Anything worth upgrading to around the $150 mark?

And I never really planned on getting a DAC. I know I can hit a quality ceiling with a sound card faster than with external DACs, but I've always planned on a sound card, and eventually an amp when I need one.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by that Linux guy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lots of great info Les. Thank you! That definitely makes me consider the DAC vs the cans. What cans would you recommend? I prefer over the ear, but I've heard awesome things about Grados for rock music. I've also heard mixed results about thier comfort. Anything worth upgrading to around the $150 mark? And I never really planned on getting a DAC. I know I can hit a quality ceiling with a sound card faster than with external DACs, but I've always planned on a sound card, and eventually an amp when I need one.

Hi,
Well, ask a dozen guys here and get a dozen different answers for sure.

If I were a guy wanting to 'Build" a system on a limited budget, here's the 2 phones I would look at.

1) Beyerdynamics DT770 Pro 80 Ohms. Possible to Mod them a little. Not bad, good gaming Phones. But in the long run not scalable.
2) Denon AH-D2000 maybe on the FS Forum. You can make these the only phones you ever own. They are that good with that much potential.

The Denons are more expensive. Yo could sell your Senn's to finance the endeavour and watch for a deal in the FS forum. . The nice thing about the Denons is that you can mod them into a Headphone that is world class for not that much money. They will be able to scale for a long time for you. There really would be no reason to buy better phones ever with them. You can Damp the Cups, Mod the EarPads, and recable into a Phone that is compared to $1000-$2000 phones or more depending on who you talk to, and these mods are CHEAP to do unless you go nutz on the cable.

Do a search for MarkL modded Denon or some sequence of that. The D5000's and D2000's are basically the same phones.

Hope this helps.

p.s. one more thing, I never bought Grados because I just couldn't stand the comfort level, and sonically when they first came out, the comfort was so distracting i could never pay attention to the sound. For the life of me, I never understood the legion of Grado fans. Always loved Joe Grado cartridges though!

 

[that Linux guy]

You know, from what I've read up on nice cans, I thought I should be looking for open cap headphones. I just read a few reviews of the AH-D2000, and it looks like that'll be my next headphone purchase. I'm still stuck between upgrading my source first, vs upgrading the headphones first... Grr, I hate tough decisions. I've heard good, logical explanations for upgrading either one.

Thanks again Les for the suggestions. You have resolved a long-standing question of which cans I should get next. I didn't find them in the FS section here, but I have found them for about $200 at buy.com. Definitely looks doable in terms of price. Perhaps I'll save my money a bit more. I'm still not sure. Thanks for all your info.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by that Linux guy /img/forum/go_quote.gif You know, from what I've read up on nice cans, I thought I should be looking for open cap headphones. I just read a few reviews of the AH-D2000, and it looks like that'll be my next headphone purchase. I'm still stuck between upgrading my source first, vs upgrading the headphones first... Grr, I hate tough decisions. I've heard good, logical explanations for upgrading either one. Thanks again Les for the suggestions. You have resolved a long-standing question of which cans I should get next. I didn't find them in the FS section here, but I have found them for about $200 at buy.com. Definitely looks doable in terms of price. Perhaps I'll save my money a bit more. I'm still not sure. Thanks for all your info.

Good Luck!

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