[Golden Ears]

I was hoping to get iphone GS SQ or better.

I tune high end audio systems for a living and have had customers rave about my services.

IMHO Audio SQ isn't so much a matter of taste... it's whether or not it sounds accurate. Some people might rank a lack of bass worse than rolled off highs... but IMHO you can quantify how close things are to real life... if you know enough of the lingo ie.. say recessed midrange by 2db.. or perhaps a suckout out 1.5 kHz etc...

My thoughts on ipods I have heard/owned..

I personally was never impressed by any of the previous ipod models until I heard the 1st gen Nano (heard and owned 2nd gen 4gig), which for some reason I preferred to the 1st gen shuffle (heard). I bought the 2nd gen shuffle which did not do lossless..and got only limited use from it. No body to the sound- but some imaging surprisingly.

I also bought the 5th gen Classic... which was just OK... and got the Imod- which was significantly better...and when played in a high end system with planar speakers performed better than the 6th Gen Ipod classic (owned) which had a prominent upper midrange (more forward sounding ) and was less accurate... but for those with lower quality headphones with recessed midrange (read 95% of ipod users) the 6th gen will sound like an improvement.

IMHO the 5th and 6th gen ipod classic sounds significantly better than the output from the headphone jack of my 2.93 ghz 17" macbook Pro unibody... as my MBP sounds like there isn't enough current and runs out of steam in bass heavy passages and does not image nearly as well. Running Ultrasone Edition 9 headphones with V3 cable upgrade.

My iPod touch 64 gig 3g... well to my ears... it is worse than a Ipod classic 6th gen 160 gig..which I traded for the iPod touch 64 gig.

If anyone wants my ipod touch 64 gig I'll sell it for $500 bundled with a Wildcharger + a bonus skin for the Iphone. It has less than 10 hours of use on it.

In this combo... the ipod touch with the wildcharger skin and using the free "remote" app from the itunes app store is the best controller- considering that you can also generate genius playlists wirelessly on the fly and rate songs on the fly- see the album art as well as jump directly from your playlist to the songs on the album. I recommend this interface for all my clients with ipod touch or iphones...and tell them to buy the wildcharger for guests to use with the ipod touch.

However.. I own a Nokia N95 which.... running Salling clicker- does most of what "remote" does with the additional ability to launch email readers, control my mouse, launch itunes visualizer, and run DVD remote, VLC , front row, and tons of other things. as well as having far longer battery like and locks down my entire system and even shuts off itunes when i walk out of wifi range (I can even set it for blue tooth range at work). The only down side is the display quality- and lack of good album art resolution as well as lack of genius support and less easy way to rate songs and lack of multi zone speaker turning on and off support.

The iPod Touch 3G (which I think can not supply the same current to a lower impedance load) - just isn't on par with the last two gen Ipod Classics...which is a shame because I wanted video (got it)..and a slimmer case (wow) and better SQ..and lack of the SQ ...for me kills it for me. Even running out of the headphone jack to the Millet Hybrid tube portable... there's just no way to get the sound to where I feel like using the player. The battery life also seems in actual usage to be far superior with the Classics perhaps because if you constantly switch playlists and songs... the display of the Ipod touch kills the battery life....odd since the rating is for an astounding amount of video.

iPod Touch 3g (rolled off low end below 35 hz 6db per octave, underdetailed midrange, highs also rolling off by 12-15khz perhaps by 3db per octave)

For those with headphones under $1000 the sound from the Ipod Touch 3g likely will be just great.

First $500 takes it and the Wildcharger + the extra iphone skin.. if it doesn't go here- I'll put it in F/S.

 

[BIG Dave]

Well, I've been looking for a 2G Touch on the local Craigslist for the last week and everytime one comes up, it sells in an hour or two. Maybe people know the 2G is the one to get?

I currently have two players (won both in contests); an original 1/2 Gig Shuffle and a 30 GB Vision M. Maybe I got a bumb Vision M but it just can't drive any of my phones to a decent level without distorting. The old Shuffle sounds a million times better, it just doesn't hold much. I'm hoping to find a 2G Touch in good condition locally, and I hope it sounds better than my Vision M. Back to check Craigslist...

 

[ibis99]

I'll say it again. There is no difference in the audio Quality. The hardware between the 2g and 3g are exactly the same. All this nonsense about the 2g sounding better is utter nonsense. Both the touch 2g, 3g and last years classic and this years classic use the same audio chip and HP out.

Enough said. And no I'm not a fanboy.

 

[leveller1642]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibis99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll say it again. There is no difference in the audio Quality. The hardware between the 2g and 3g are exactly the same. All this nonsense about the 2g sounding better is utter nonsense. Both the touch 2g, 3g and last years classic and this years classic use the same audio chip and HP out. Enough said. And no I'm not a fanboy.

As says iLounge. The consensus around here is/was that the 2nd gen had a good headphone output. It reminds me of the Apogee Duet's detailed SQ.

Review: Apple Inc. iPod touch (Third-Generation) | iLounge

Quote:

Audio: As noted in last year’s review of the second-generation iPod touch, a major improvement in sound quality was achieved when Apple changed audio chips—the audio chip was “cleaner, with a nearly non-existent static noise floor that’s as well-suited to audiophile-grade earphones as free pack-ins.” The same is true for this year’s model; using very high-end multi-driver earphones, we couldn’t detect any difference between the two iPod touches when listening carefully to the latest audiophile-polished remastered Beatles albums, amongst other tracks, and this is a great thing; independent of all of its other abilities, the new iPod touch remains an excellent audio player. Its integrated speaker has not changed in any apparent way from the one in the prior version; it is capable of letting you hear audio up close, and works adequately for game playing and video viewing, but does not perform music with great volume or fidelity.

I guess Redmond must be worried.

 

[j2kei]

that must mean that i must've got a dud because i had a 2nd gen for almost a year and was pretty satisfied, but the 3rd gen i have sounds like a POS. possibly the early batch are like this.

 

[Sparky191]

Like wise I didn't lile the 160GB Classic but I like the 2G Touch. Maybe the Classic was faulty, but you can't tell me they sounded the same. Even my cloth ears noticed a big difference.

 

[Sparky191]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG Dave /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I've been looking for a 2G Touch on the local Craigslist for the last week and everytime one comes up, it sells in an hour or two. Maybe people know the 2G is the one to get? I currently have two players (won both in contests); an original 1/2 Gig Shuffle and a 30 GB Vision M. Maybe I got a bumb Vision M but it just can't drive any of my phones to a decent level without distorting. The old Shuffle sounds a million times better, it just doesn't hold much. I'm hoping to find a 2G Touch in good condition locally, and I hope it sounds better than my Vision M. Back to check Craigslist...

I think my 2G Touch sounds nearly as good as my 1G shuffles before they stopped working. My Sony A818 sounds very good but its a different sound. The 2G touch is closer to the Shuffle IMO.

 

[psikey]

Had a 32GB 2G Touch and now a 64GB Touch.

I've had my 64GB for two week now.

The 3G is far from a POC but I do think the 2G did sound slightly better. Probably down to variations in the firmware as many did comment on a change in SQ going from V2 to V3 (or V3.1) software. I never update my 2G Touch to the 3.1 firmware.

Sound signature is not as Dynamic/Alive somehow but It's still good enough for me.

The increase speed of everything especially the Safari browser over WiFi more than makes up for any slight drop in SQ (if there actually is one, rather that just different).

IMO the Touch is not the best music player for SQ and there are cheaper, better options if only music is your thing. But as a power house media player/Gamer/net device thats highly portable, there's nothing to touch it (well, apart from an iPhone).

 

[FraGGleR]

Having listened extensively to a 5G Video, a 2G Nano, and a 1G Touch, comparing them to a Creative Vision:M, Creative Zen V Plus, and a Sansa Clip, using my song files and my IEM's, there has never been a point where the Apple products have been able to match the other players in SQ. I don't love or hate things based on their brand or perceived value. I go for best bang for the buck at all times, based on research and actual testing. Apple always wins on interface and design, but they never seem to win on quality (and will almost never win on price/value). I am continuously surprised by how many people on this "audiophile" forum swear by (and sometimes angrily defend) their Ipods. At first I assumed that it was because everyone was using LOD's or modded Ipods with amplifiers, but more an more people seem to be just using the headphone outs. I am perplexed because of my experiences, but if people say that their Ipod sounds better to them than any player they have listened to, then bully for them. Now if they defend their Ipod's and have never done extensive listening to other players, then they aren't being useful to anyone and risk stumbling down that fanboy path.

I will say the one thing I do hate is fanboyism. Both sides. I hate Apple haters, and I hate Apple lovers. I dislike it when people are so insecure so as to wrap up their identities in a brand, and I equally dislike it when people have nothing better to do than to poop on someone's parade. It's the internet, everyone is right/wrong.

I am continuously intrigued by the Touches because of everything they can do outside of play music (I am an archaic PDA user), but I will never own one until the headphone out sounds as good as the other players available to me. With each new generation I keep hoping that they will sound better than the last, but from the 3 or 4 actually useful posts in this thread that compare the players, it looks like I will have to wait another generation as the 3G Touch has taken a step back(?).

Now that I have some "good" headphones that can be driven easily by DAP's I might go to an Apple store to check out the newest gen Touch. On a related note, are their LOD's available for the newest Touches? Is the sound different (hopefully better) than the headphone outs?

Peace, love, and happy ears everyone.

 

[kikkomang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FraGGleR /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am continuously surprised by how many people on this "audiophile" forum swear by (and sometimes angrily defend) their Ipods.

im more surprised by how many people angrily argue against apple products.

 

[philthy]

I was wondering if iPhone 3G/iPod Touch 2G LODs are compatible with the 3G iPod Touch?

 

[Sparky191]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FraGGleR /img/forum/go_quote.gif Having listened extensively to a 5G Video, a 2G Nano, and a 1G Touch, comparing them to a Creative Vision:M, Creative Zen V Plus, and a Sansa Clip, using my song files and my IEM's, there has never been a point where the Apple products have been able to match the other players in SQ. ....

Personally I never rated the SQ on the Classic iPods, 4/5/6G. The 1G Touch is not meant to be good. Dunno about the Nano. The Creative Vision:M I liked, the clip always gets good reviews. So none of the above is a surprise to me.

Unfortunately the 3G Touch is getting mixed to poor feedback by owners here on Head Fi. I think I'll be giving it a miss. at the moment my next player is probably going to be Sony X, Clip+ or a Fuze.

 

[ibis99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philthy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was wondering if iPhone 3G/iPod Touch 2G LODs are compatible with the 3G iPod Touch?

You should have no problem.

 

[j2kei]

ok so i had a listen to compare my gf's and my itouch and they are definitely not the same. both are the 3rd gen 32gb model, however mine sounds completely disastrous compared to my gf's which had much more transparency and refinement in the SQ. only thing that was pretty disappointing in her itouch was that i really had to bump up the volume for the itouch lineout to power my re0 to a slightly louder than listenable volume in a quiet room.

 

[CENTRAL]

@ibis99: you mentioned earlier on that the chipset in ipod 2g & 3g to be the same?

Can you tell me which Dac does the 2g uses? is it the cyrus or the wolfson chip?