[shplorgh]

Two players to look at would be the iPod (duh) and the iRiver H1xx series. The iPod has always had an amazingly simple and intuitive interface, and the iRiver H1xx series has been widely respected by the "power user" crowd for all it's features, compatibility, and sound quality. If someone could succesfully create a medium between those two without compromising anything, they would have an incredible DAP on their hands.

 

[JoeBorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Iriver Is this thread still active? Actually I change my mind. I said it would be good to have the best amp, and DAC possible. If the device has a very good analog out, I now think, it would be better to use an Usual DAP amp, but place the best DAC possible. Some phones like the SA5k, CD3k, grados, don't need a really powerfull amp, but what they do benefit from is a very good source. Now if the phones need an amp, then an amp can be plugged into the very good line out. A question to JoeBorn? IS the sound (DAC) of this DAP, aimed to sound better than a DAP, yet around the in same level, or is it more than that, as in to sound competetively with sound cards like the EMUs (EMU 0404, 1212), or Maudio audiophile/transit adapters. I ask this because if it can replace something at least like the $100 EMU 0404, then it would also become an awesome sounding home system.

I'm not 100% sure I understand the question, but I would say this

No doubts the sound quality will clearly be above the other DAP's.
I am not sure exactloy how we will stack up against the EMU card..
The digital performance will be the same (24/96), since it is digital.

Chances are the analog performance will be a few dB lower, mostly due to the fact that they have a LOT of PCB area to shield and decouple things, and you just have a lot more freedom when space and power are not in short supply.

But we are going to be a lot more portable than the EMU 0404.

We'll know more once we have the development boards in a month.

 

[Ubijza]

The undisputed best sounding portable DAP (ok it's a PCDP) is Denon DCP150. The next tier below is the level of Sony D211 and Sony D303 PCDPs.
I think it would make sense to use them as a reference... So the success plan is simple for the Neuros: take the innards of D211 and wire them to the HD. Voila

Seriously though... If your player will have the portable audio bliss that any one the mentioned above DO possess (VERY natural sounding, fast, crisp, detail to texture and transients... with punchy tight bass)... You will be worshiped in this place

 

[Mr Do]

If i had a majic wand, and could spell, I would zap this http://www.zzounds.com/item--SNYPCMM1 and pretso!!.

The screen would be stretched and this would play mp3, flac, ogg, gapless, blah, blah blah...The perfect audiophile player recorder exisists but doesn't have a hard drive yet. It seems so close but so far away. Stop looking at the exisitng mp3 for inspiration. Adiophile player recorders allready exist. Scratch the dat and add in the hard drive and your portable recorder player's hardware is done. Now develope and intuitive fully expandable operatating system and your complete.

Do!

 

[JoeBorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubijza The undisputed best sounding portable DAP (ok it's a PCDP) is Denon DCP150. The next tier below is the level of Sony D211 and Sony D303 PCDPs. I think it would make sense to use them as a reference... So the success plan is simple for the Neuros: take the innards of D211 and wire them to the HD. Voila Seriously though... If your player will have the portable audio bliss that any one the mentioned above DO possess (VERY natural sounding, fast, crisp, detail to texture and transients... with punchy tight bass)... You will be worshiped in this place

I think you all will be very pleased, remember we are using a 24bit DAC and VERY tightly designed headphone amp, but let's let the machine speak for itself.

 

[Emmanuel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeBorn I think you all will be very pleased, remember we are using a 24bit DAC and VERY tightly designed headphone amp, but let's let the machine speak for itself.

If it's a Burr-Brown, I will contentedly give you my money at this very moment...

 

[donunus]

So now.... The reality for you guys at neuros when it comes to selling the thing is the looks and price ratio. I think from observing sales from different stores that those are what makes the daps sell like pancakes and of course the known apple ipod name.... but as for me, if it sounds like good home audio equipment and will play all my files without skipping, I will buy it

 

[rcossebo]

Since I'm a "novice" at all this and all I can contribute is from my "listening" experience, I'm fascinated by the knowledge of the posters! Thank you!
I'm very excited about the N3 and really looking forward to getting one when they are released; especially after the last two posts.
If it does come close to producing the definition of a good home unit, I've had Bose and B&O in the past and was pleased, then I will be very satisfied. When you travel like I do and love music like I do, but can't take the "home unit" with you, something that will equate the sound no matter where you are is a very sellable item. And, if the "image" is crisp and user friendly, then the market is wide open.
I work in a College Computer lab (among my many other lives) and the majority of the students have iPods. I've asked them why they chose it and the 2 biggest reasons (1) the size and (2) they are cool. I've let them listen to my N2 and they are amazed at the sound but the geekness and size put them off. (I also have the "backup battery" on the back of it so makes the unit much bigger than normal.)
Just my 10 cents this gray, overcast morning while I'm trying to outwit the flu!

 

[JoeBorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmanuel If it's a Burr-Brown, I will contentedly give you my money at this very moment...

Yes, it is a Burr-Brown-

you can find some additional specs on the wiki while we're debating them:

http://www.theneuros.com/index.php/C...map:Neuros_III

 

[irvin59]

I just read the link and I don't see anything about a lineout. I think this ommision would be a major problem for many people on this forum who like to listen with an amp through a good quality lineout, without always using spdif into a dac. In any event if the dac you are using is better than what is currently offered in daps the lineout might be an even more important feature than the digital out, at least for portable usage.
On the color screen issue, while it is certainly not essential, they are nice to look at and easier to read imho. Also if the chip supports video why not take advantage rather than hobble this capability at the outset for a bit of extra battery life, seeing as the batery will be user replaceable on the go. Album art support is only viable with a color screen and my impression is that many people love this feature.
As for formats, my suggestion would be to offer support for AAC and ALAC if at all possible simply because of the huge number of files people must have already encoded in these formats.

 

[Emmanuel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeBorn Yes, it is a Burr-Brown- you can find some additional specs on the wiki while we're debating them: http://www.theneuros.com/index.php/C...map:Neuros_III

Sir, you have some good stuff there; I am very keen indeed. Everything looks positive so far but please allow me to make a few comments:-

- The removable battery is the definitive way forward but you have to make sure that the cover somehow locks (as per the HD5). I am sure you already know this but I feel I have to stress the point regardless: the main reason most HD based DAPs have a built-in battery is because hard drives can (will, even) get damaged if power is lost abruptly while at read-write state. Sony's solution of a lockable battery compartment is outstanding and indeed a point of reference.

- The attachable AA battery solution is another great idea and should not be too difficult to implement; my MZ-R91 minidisc recorder incorporates the required electronics of said battery solution in a very very very small package... Actually, I am fairly sure it's all done at software.

- With regards to storage, may I suggest using the new perpendicular drives as they are built with portable applications in mind? They can withstand higher G shocks than current drives, have lower voltage requirements and, apparently, the interface adheres to the new CE-ATA specification which is more economical to implement as it's a much simpler design (smaller pin count).

I look forward to seeing the first "beta" versions. Any chance of indulging us in the capacitors' spec? Make and model, maybe?

 

[CookieFactory]

How about making sure there is absolutely no audible system hiss?

 

[cetoole]

Something that will probably not be an issue at all, but I feel needs to be mentioned, is make sure there is no DC offset from the player.

 

[scrypt]

I've been meaning to post a few thoughts since your thread's inception. I've refrained until now because I wanted to give precedence to those with fresher thoughts. After all, not everyone has a two-year history of anticipating the revamped Neuros's arrival. Neither, I presume, will many in your prospective market.

Contrary to what you’ve read lately, many Head-fi members are interested in using an HD player with an external DAC. Some have posted showing their interest in the Neuros specifically.

In the past, a number of Head-fi members have commented on desired or appreciated features of the Neuros's next incarnation -- features which have been, for the most part, underplayed or dismissed on this thread. As far back as 2003, I posted here regarding the Neuros's potential as an occasional recording device after my conversation with Stephen Kohler. According to the prospective specs on your linked page, the Neuros will have improved considerably since that post. Your page's specs are in keeping with the needs of musicians, tapers and geekier audiophiles -- musicians to whom, according to Kohler, the original Neuros was designed in part to appeal.

In the past, it seemed Neuros Audio would be the company that finally addressed the preferences of prosumers, audiophiles and musicians: One doesn't necessarily want to drag around a device that is made primarily for digital recording. Often, one simply wants to have the option -- to listen to music for hours but record only the tail end of a rehearsal; to capture the occasional sound or performance worth editing and refining.

Since the demise of iRiver's iHP120/140, no company has offered a portable hard drive player with digital I/O. Past fondlers of the iHP120/140 have lamented its passing for that reason. Look at Headroom's product list, particularly the original Overture and its successors (such as the MicroDAC): At this point, Tyll's portable DAC/Headamp combination doesn't make sense unless one uses a PC at work with an audiophile soundcard, owns an increasingly spent iHP120/140 or collects PCDPs with optical outs.

Now that iRiver has moved on, no other niche company is addressing the needs of such users except those in the professional community, and none of those companies (Marantz, etc.) seem interested in creating dual-purpose pocket-sized PHDPs at consumer prices. Neuros Audio could be the company to take iRiver’s place.

An additional factor to consider is the likely death of the MiniDisc format (which has been reported with new authority on many MD sites). A number of disenfranchised Hi-MD users (especially tapers) would be interested, I daresay, in a version of the Neuros that offers uncompressed recording through a digital in (allowing for a third-party ADC) without the maddening limitations of Soundforge(TM) and other Sony protection schemes.

All of which leads me to say this:

I would like to suggest that the new Neuro continue to offer digital I/O (S/PDIF, according to your original specs) and uncompressed recording. Even though most on this thread have cautioned you against creating a Jack-of-all-trades player, other members are hungry for precisely the two features I’ve mentioned. It seems to me that satisfying a large and disenfranchised niche market trumps the drawbacks of what’s presumed to be unnecessary versatility.

If your next Neuros incarnation doesn’t include these features, then perhaps you’ll consider creating a prosumer Neuros that will. Without uncompressed recording and digital I/O, I see little reason to switch from an iRiver, Apple or Cowan player to the Neuros. Gapless playback is an excellent and welcome feature, but I doubt many musicians, tapers or DAC users would consider it a deal-breaker.

 

[irvin59]

I don't know if you were refering to my previous post where I argued/begged for a good lineout. If so I did not intend this to mean that the digital out should be sacrificed. I think the best option would be to have both, like the H1xx. I have an H140 which I use with the microdac and I love the combo. The only point I was trying to make is that for portable use a lineout would be very desirable, so that just the dap and an amp can be used. Much as I love my microdac I would classify it as more transportable than portable, at least for active use. I am a little surprised that no-one has supported my call for a lineout. Perhaps a similar thread should be posted in the amp forum where I believe the response would be different. I would say that the lack of a good lineout would be a deal-breaker for many people unless the built in amp is of similar quality to the sr 71, smv3 etc..which would be very nice but is, I think, unlikely.