[happybob]

I've been looking into options to stream music from my computer (apple lossless collection) to another room where my high-end stereo equipments reside. so far the best options seem to be apple airport express, squeezebox, or sono with their digital out option. but since i own a couple USB dacs (Paradisea+ and PS Audio Digital Link III), I'm wondering if there are any network usb servers out there that can support USB audio? I know there are network usb servers from Silex and Keyspan that allow you to connect USB printers, scanners, hard drive, etc... But both of them don't support USB audio. If I can find a network USB server that support USB audio, then I can connect it to my USB DAC directly and be able to stream bit-perfect audio. Anyone know if there's any USB server out there thats support USB audio, or if one is coming out soon?

 

[-am]

http://olive.us/p_bin/?cid=home&PHPS...905c4e6bfb855f

 

[happybob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by -am /img/forum/go_quote.gif http://olive.us/p_bin/?cid=home&PHPS...905c4e6bfb855f

not sure which olive product you are recommending. checked out their website. how are the olive products different from squeezebox or sono? the more expensive olive models have usb ports, but they are for connecting an ipod or hard drives i think, i don't believe that they are compatible with outputing usb audio. plus, if i want to spend $800 or more, i might as well get myself a cheap laptop and use it as a music streaming server, probably not as elegant though.

the key is to find an usb server out there that can support isosynchrous data such as usb audio or usb video.

 

[psyllium]

Quote:

Originally Posted by happybob /img/forum/go_quote.gif not sure which olive product you are recommending. checked out their website. how are the olive products different from squeezebox or sono? the more expensive olive models have usb ports, but they are for connecting an ipod or hard drives i think, i don't believe that they are compatible with outputing usb audio. plus, if i want to spend $800 or more, i might as well get myself a cheap laptop and use it as a music streaming server, probably not as elegant though. the key is to find an usb server out there that can support isosynchrous data such as usb audio or usb video.

What about a really really small PC?

 

[happybob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyllium /img/forum/go_quote.gif What about a really really small PC?

thought about that. any recs? laptop? hate to put pc there and also a separate monitor?

 

[poo]

Mac mini seems to be a logical choice... at least it's more versatile than a 'Network USB server with USB audio support'

 

[poo]

Couldn't you run optical out of an airport express into a DAC?

 

[Soundproof]

Quote:

Originally Posted by poo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Couldn't you run optical out of an airport express into a DAC?

Yes. I'm running a TosLink into my DAC. Works perfectly.

 

[happybob]

the thing with mac mini is that you would also need a monitor nearby to control it or use remote desktop. but all my other computers are windows-based, and it's a bit of a hassle to run remote desktop on a pc to connect to a mac based on what i gathered. also this is quite an expensive option for simple audio streaming as i don't need to have video or other multimedia functions.

airport express is probably the cheapest option, but based on reviews, its optical out isn't as good as that of a squeezebox or sono, and the whole point of getting a usb dac is that the usb input supposedly is superior to optical in especially in regards to jitters.

now i'm leaning toward just finding an old, outdated laptop with usb ports and still powerful enough to run itune and use that as a music server. unless anyone else has a better option...

 

[Soundproof]

Quote:

Originally Posted by happybob /img/forum/go_quote.gif airport express is probably the cheapest option, but based on reviews, its optical out isn't as good as that of a squeezebox or sono, and the whole point of getting a usb dac is that the usb input supposedly is superior to optical in especially in regards to jitters.

According to Stereophile, the optical out of the airport express is bit transparent, and it doesn't get any better than that.

The DAC would be the unit that corrects for jitter. Benchmark claim that theirs practically removes it altogether.

 

[poo]

You beat me to it - airport express would be the budget way to go IMO. Should sound great!

 

[happybob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundproof /img/forum/go_quote.gif According to Stereophile, the optical out of the airport express is bit transparent, and it doesn't get any better than that. The DAC would be the unit that corrects for jitter. Benchmark claim that theirs practically removes it altogether.

that's the controversy. theoretically, all digital data should be bit transparent, but apparently even bit transparent doesn't mean that two things will sound the same. that's why when you hook up two different transports to the same dac, you will likely hear two different sounds. even in stereophile's own reviews, they addressed this dilemma, and still noticed that the digital out from squeezebox seems fuller than that from the airport express.

in regards to jitter, most high-end dacs should do well to reduce jitter, bechmark being one of them. but theoretically, usb is still a more jitter free interface.

anyway, i might end up just picking up an airport express and try it out, or go with the laptop route. i was really hoping that someone more engineering savy would know if there's a usb server that would support isosynchronous device such as usb audio or why it's so difficult to make one.

 

[poo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by happybob /img/forum/go_quote.gif even bit transparent doesn't mean that two things will sound the same. that's why when you hook up two different transports to the same dac, you will likely hear two different sounds.

Of course...

Not sure what you are saying here. If you have two different transports with or without a DAC 'you will likely hear two different sounds'. Bit transparent doesn't have anything to do with devices sounding the same...

 

[happybob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by poo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course... Not sure what you are saying here. If you have two different transports with or without a DAC 'you will likely hear two different sounds'. Bit transparent doesn't have anything to do with devices sounding the same...

this is in response to soundproof's suggestion that airport express is bit-transparent, therefore you can't get better than that... of course you can get a lot better than that...

 

[happybob]

just want to update this thread to let you guys know that i've finally found the device i've been looking for - Belkin Network USB Hub. it's only been out for a couple months. although there are a few other network usb hubs/servers out there, as far as i know, this is the only one that supports "usb audio". what this means is that for those of you who own a DAC with usb input (Benchmark Dac 1 usb, PS Audio Digital Link III, Mhdt Lab Paradisea+, Scott Nixon, Stello, Apogee, etc...), with the Belkin Network USB Hub, you can now stream music from your computer through ethernet or wirelessly (a separate wireless router required) to the usb input of your DAC.

here's a link to the device:
http://www.belkin.com/networkusbhub/

this means you don't need to deal with the apple airport express's optical output and its jitter problem, or spend a lot money on a squeezebox, transporter, sono, olive and more money modding them to make them sound good. i guess you won't have the nicer user interface of the squeezebox, but you can use itune, and any usb-based remote control.

i was able to do a comparison between the apple airport express and the belkin network usb hub a few days ago. the airport express was connected to my ps audio digital link iii's optical in, and the belkin network usb hub to the usb in. i streamed music to both from a computer in another room through the network using itune and apple lossless files. i listened to Diana Krall's "The Girl in the Other Room" through both devices, and also listened to the same songs from the CD layer of the SACD/CD hybrid played through my Yamaha CD changer/transport connected to the ps audio digital link iii's optical input as my reference. In my setup, both my sister and i thought the CD had the best combination of tonal richness, smoothness, and details. The Belkin Network USB hub sounded very close to the CD in richness and smoothness, but perhaps very slightly less in details, while the airport express had similar details as the CD, but sounded thin and harsh at times. my sister had a more difficult time picking between the CD and the Belkin Network USB hub, but was able to pick out the airport express's harsher sound 90% of the time.

so even if apple airport express's optical out might be bit-perfect, its sound is definitely not perfect. i suspect that it could be due to the jitter, but i didn't have any equipment to measure it.