Need to understand Audio components in music system
Sep 6, 2019 at 5:11 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 2

jaykarnik

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I currently have the JBL LSR305 with the LSR310s and a Focusrite 2i2 DAC. I use it mainly for playing audio/movies from my PC.

I am looking to upgrade the whole setup and need some advice.

I heard the Bowers & Wilkins 800 D3 system with a Mcintosh Amp and was simply blown away by the system. Unfortunately I have nowhere close to that budget. I have spent 900$ on my current setup. How much should the next system cost be for me to hear a substantial improvement in the listening experience.

Secondly my source of audio is always going to be the PC, either for music or for movies. I am trying to understand how to setup the Hi-fi system. Do I need to get a sound card with Optical out or will higher end DAC still be able to connect to the PC with the USB as my 2i2 does?

I am also trying to understand the pros and cons between getting active monitors vs passive monitors with an Amp.

Finally I am trying to understand where a Pre-amp fits into the whole equation? Wouldn't an output from the DAC go straight the the active speakers or the amplifier. I don't seem to understand the need for a pre-amp at all in the setup.

Any guidance, especially on the $$$ and pre-amp part would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
Jay
 
Sep 6, 2019 at 11:51 PM Post #2 of 2
I currently have the JBL LSR305 with the LSR310s and a Focusrite 2i2 DAC. I use it mainly for playing audio/movies from my PC.

I am looking to upgrade the whole setup and need some advice.

I heard the Bowers & Wilkins 800 D3 system with a Mcintosh Amp and was simply blown away by the system. Unfortunately I have nowhere close to that budget. I have spent 900$ on my current setup. How much should the next system cost be for me to hear a substantial improvement in the listening experience.

A lot more.

First off, the frequency response is very different. Those are huge speakers with two bass drivers to cover the lows. As much as active speakers can reach lower than 2-way standmounts with the same driver size due to separate amplification on the drivers plus you can tweak the gain on the tweeter amp and reduce it to make the other driver more audible, you're still facing a handicap vs a speaker with huge drivers like that. You're basically asking what to upgrade from a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo to get close to a Bugatti Veyron.

That's not on just the audio electronics. The room where the B&W speakers were if it was acoustically treated helps those speakers a lot. If you put the speakers in your room and you have all those acoustic issues with reflections off the walls you're not going to get the same kind of imaging that that other set up can do. You didn't just test the Veyron vs the Evo, you listened to the Veyron on the Nurburgring, but put that in Buttonwillow raceway and I wouldn't be surprised if a relatively large (for a 2 passenger car) with a gigantic lump of an engine weighing over 4000lbs would drive like crap and have even a Lotus 7 with a Ford Duratec sneak past it at the second corner. That system sounds great because it's in an environment where it can shine. Think of how really rich people likely would just have a Rolls Royce or Maybach in Manila or Mumbai and then keep the Lambos and Bugattis in their houses in Europe or North America where they can actually drive them for anything other than showing off when they hand it over to a valet (I wouldn't be surprised if some of these people would just take an E-Class or equivalent if they're just eating out as opposed to, say, joining Mario Andretti driving down California for the Running of the Bulls, apart from taking such cars out so they wouldn't deteriorate from lack of use).

You can try adding a subwoofer, which is kind of like upgrading the turbo on the Evo. That's got downsides though. You can end up with turbo lag at Buttonwillow just as in a small room the subwoofer can be too easy to localize, and if it's not between the two monitors, you'd be forced to lower the gain and filter setting, basically just really filling in the very bottom end as opposed to adding to that hard thump. Add other acoustic issues like putting them in a corner and that makes them louder and boomier, and even on very low gain you'll end up with something that sounds like some cheap car with B-52 subwoofers from Autozone as opposed to anything like what Abbey Road uses.

105d6126da072a4b6b29bc5a6d42c730--abbey-road-music-studios.jpg



Secondly my source of audio is always going to be the PC, either for music or for movies. I am trying to understand how to setup the Hi-fi system. Do I need to get a sound card with Optical out or will higher end DAC still be able to connect to the PC with the USB as my 2i2 does?

I'd much rather have the convenient volume knob on the 2i2 than blow more money on the soundcard and not have that. A DAC chip or circuit would have to be really flawed for there to be drastic differences.

However that depends on what other things you need. Do you need the soundcard's DSP? Then sure, go with that. Do you need to drive headphones? OK, get a DAC-HPamp or a DAC and HPamp that will do a much better job than the 2i2, just make sure one has a preamp circuit to control the output on the speakers. Do you need the soundcard for that? Not necessarily - you can get a good DAC-HPamp or DAC that works via USB. Doesn't your motherboard have optical output? I mean only the cheapest motherboards don't have those.


I am also trying to understand the pros and cons between getting active monitors vs passive monitors with an Amp.

Active pro monitors
Pros: Drivers are designed for nearfield use (see Buttonwillow vs Nurburgring above), they have separate amp and gain controls on the tweeters and midwoofers, so you have some tuning capability depending on your treble sensitivity; amp inputs/outputs on monitoring subwoofers allow easier integration with unity gain off of one preamp and single signal chain
Cons: Since they don't know what size studio you actually have, and they also want a lot of driver control and current for low frequency transients, the amp can sometimes be a problem for nearfield use since at 1m you can hear more of the electronic noise. If not worse as in some cases they can have really bad noise even from farther out.

Passive speakers + amp
Pro: You can choose a very low noise, very low distortion, always ready high current delivery Class A amplifier, or a low distortion, low noise, insanely high output power Class D amplifier, or a Class A SET or A/B push-pull KT88/300B depending on the speakers' sensitivity; you can get a large tower for a large room
Con: No easy tweak for the balance of the tweeter and midwoofer; that low noise, low distortion Class A amp is expensive and low power, or really expensive and you're still at around 100watts per channel


Finally I am trying to understand where a Pre-amp fits into the whole equation? Wouldn't an output from the DAC go straight the the active speakers or the amplifier. I don't seem to understand the need for a pre-amp at all in the setup.

Ummmm...you're using a preamp now.

Not having a preamp is like having an engine hooked up to the differential without a transmission and you control your speed with just the throttle, except in audio you're not even supposed to use two controls. Just one preamp for unity gain on the same chain.
 

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