[joQuFIN]

Turntable is Dual cs505. Here is a sample I recorded with my computer, sorry for the old recordin

. Notice the sound in the beginning and in the end on the silent part. Is there any otherway to get rid of it than buying better turntable? I´m going to buy better someday but not too soon. It´s not so bad so I can live with it but if there is a way to repair this I would like to do so. To me it sounds like something is rubbing to somewhere but Im not founding what it is. I may have to open this thing again fully. I wonder if it comes from arm not being able to track so well, and therefore it would go away with upgrading whole thing.
 
http://www.mediafire.com/file/b3mosqc24w233w1/Paljain%20jaloin.wav
 
Edit: I tested some more records and noticed how some records don´t have that noice so noticable.
New samples from clean records:
 
These two don`t seem to have that noice:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/7z5u653as7b0phc/RyanSample.wav
http://www.mediafire.com/file/o15kqk7tqb2dudu/VivaLaVidaSample.wav
 
And this newly bought Davis record seems to have the noise:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/k72w2a1vb36tlk8/DavisSample.wav

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Turntable is Dual cs505. Here is a sample I recorded with my computer, sorry for the old recordin

. Notice the sound in the beginning and in the end on the silent part. Is there any otherway to get rid of it than buying better turntable?
 
Seems to be a combination of mistracking, normal groove noise and a bit of rumble (bearing noise) probably nothing you can do about the rumble and groove noise. Do you have theability to alter the cartridge alignment or is it in fixed position ?
 
I´m going to buy better someday but not too soon. It´s not so bad so I can live with it but if there is a way to repair this I would like to do so. To me it sounds like something is rubbing to somewhere but Im not founding what it is. I may have to open this thing again fully. I wonder if it comes from arm not being able to track so well, and therefore it would go away with upgrading whole thing.
 
http://www.mediafire.com/file/b3mosqc24w233w1/Paljain%20jaloin.wav
 
Sadly noise is a perennal problem with vinyl, it is those pesky laws of physics.

 

[joQuFIN]

 
Quote:

Quote:

Turntable is Dual cs505. Here is a sample I recorded with my computer, sorry for the old recordin

. Notice the sound in the beginning and in the end on the silent part. Is there any otherway to get rid of it than buying better turntable?
 
Seems to be a combination of mistracking, normal groove noise and a bit of rumble (bearing noise) probably nothing you can do about the rumble and groove noise. Do you have theability to alter the cartridge alignment or is it in fixed position ?
 
I´m going to buy better someday but not too soon. It´s not so bad so I can live with it but if there is a way to repair this I would like to do so. To me it sounds like something is rubbing to somewhere but Im not founding what it is. I may have to open this thing again fully. I wonder if it comes from arm not being able to track so well, and therefore it would go away with upgrading whole thing.
 
http://www.mediafire.com/file/b3mosqc24w233w1/Paljain%20jaloin.wav
 
Sadly noise is a perennal problem with vinyl, it is those pesky laws of physics.

Yes I am very well aware of noise in vinyl and it is not a problem, but that one particular noice happens to sound abnormal even to vinyl playback. It might also be rubberband being lose but havent figured it out yet. Cardridge is not fixed so it can be altered. It might also be that circuling noise is really coming from record croove "wobbling" a little becouse grooves are not centered and this Dual arm cannot track it properly. I am probably going to oil bearings and change belt and see what happens. That noise seems to be most audible on that one I posted a sample, yet it is also on a new record that has only been played two times on that new cardridge, and it is not even audible on some records that have tape noise in them.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

 
Quote:

Quote:

Turntable is Dual cs505. Here is a sample I recorded with my computer, sorry for the old recordin

. Notice the sound in the beginning and in the end on the silent part. Is there any otherway to get rid of it than buying better turntable?
 
Seems to be a combination of mistracking, normal groove noise and a bit of rumble (bearing noise) probably nothing you can do about the rumble and groove noise. Do you have theability to alter the cartridge alignment or is it in fixed position ?
 
I´m going to buy better someday but not too soon. It´s not so bad so I can live with it but if there is a way to repair this I would like to do so. To me it sounds like something is rubbing to somewhere but Im not founding what it is. I may have to open this thing again fully. I wonder if it comes from arm not being able to track so well, and therefore it would go away with upgrading whole thing.
 
http://www.mediafire.com/file/b3mosqc24w233w1/Paljain%20jaloin.wav
 
Sadly noise is a perennal problem with vinyl, it is those pesky laws of physics.

Yes I am very well aware of noise in vinyl and it is not a problem, but that one particular noice happens to sound abnormal even to vinyl playback.
 
 
To me it sounds like a pretty typical silent groove noise on vinyl as I remember it.  
 
 
It might also be rubberband being lose but havent figured it out yet.
 
Unlikely as that would tend to give you a "wowing" effect as the platter undergoes small speed variations  and the pitch sounded okay
 
 
Cardridge is not fixed so it can be altered. It might also be that circuling noise is really coming from record croove "wobbling" a little becouse grooves are not centered
 
Worth a try at re-alogning it. Even on a perfectly pressed LPs there is small lateral movement of the needle in the groove, just watch it.
 
 
and this Dual arm cannot track it properly. I am probably going to oil bearings and change belt and see what happens.
 
The Dual is a pretty modest TT but it might have excessive lateral movement in the arm due to wear, you can see how much play there is, it is a 25+ year old TT after all
 
 
That noise seems to be most audible on that one I posted a sample, yet it is also on a new record that has only been played two times on that new cardridge, and it is not even audible on some records that have tape noise in them.
 
Tape noise may be as high as -60db in some cases, your groove noise is at about -70db  
 

 

[joQuFIN]

Tape noise may be as high as -60db in some cases, your groove noise is at about -70db  
 

May I ask how you approximated my groove noise? Did you check the audio sample with some program? Also that record is one of the noisiest ones that I own, as for what comes to groove noise, atleast in the silent parts.
 
Edit: And as for that noise do you hear that littlebit like metallic circling sound in my sample or not? The one beneath other noises. It is audible in the very beginning.
Edit2: Reason why I´m asking whether you hear or not, is that are we speaking about the same problem here. The circling sound is what I´m trying to get rid off. To me it kind of sounds like needle is wondering a bit in the groove. I try to adjust my cart to see if it goes away. I just hope it is not goming from the main bearings. There is no loose on arm bearings.

 

[middachten]

What cartridge are you using? The original Ortofon (DN165 if I remember correctly)?
What are your weight and lateral correction settings?

 

[ianmedium]

What everyone else is saying plus!
I owned one of these years ago and found it even more picky on what it sits on than other record decks. One of the ways I found fairly cheap to reduce rumble was to place it on a butchers block chopping board.
 
It really helps reduce a great deal of noise including the rumble you want one at least 2 inches thick. I also cut in half sorbothane balls and placed them round side up placing the butchers block on top of them.
 
I also found this deck very sensitive to being level so you might want to check that as well! Do you listen with the lid on? I found the deck improved yet again by removing it completely. If you don't want to do that at least listen with the lid up!
 
Hope that helps, I had to drag some old memories up from the depths!

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Tape noise may be as high as -60db in some cases, your groove noise is at about -70db  
 

May I ask how you approximated my groove noise? Did you check the audio sample with some program? Also that record is one of the noisiest ones that I own, as for what comes to groove noise, atleast in the silent parts.
 
I ran it through Audacity which is a freeware audio program, I did a Frequency analysis.
 
Edit: And as for that noise do you hear that littlebit like metallic circling sound in my sample or not? The one beneath other noises. It is audible in the very beginning.
Yep, I hear that, that may be bearing, there is some energy (-50db) at below 300hz which is where rumble generally lives but there is also hiss and crackle, if you do a Frequency analysis you can see this.
 
 
Edit2: Reason why I´m asking whether you hear or not, is that are we speaking about the same problem here. The circling sound is what I´m trying to get rid off. To me it kind of sounds like needle is wondering a bit in the groove. I try to adjust my cart to see if it goes away. I just hope it is not goming from the main bearings. There is no loose on arm bearings.

 

[joQuFIN]

 
Quote:

What cartridge are you using? The original Ortofon (DN165 if I remember correctly)?
What are your weight and lateral correction settings?

Oh sorry I forget to mention (just posted to another thread that I bought one)  that I put Ortofon 2M Blue in this table and it is fourth version not 505-1. I allso have felt mat in this. I made thread to the orginal weight and screwed some extra weight to it, 2 grams if I remember correctly. I have set weight to 1.8 like ortofon recommends, and same for lateral correction. I schanged alligment but it did not help.
I know that this cart starts to be the most expensive that is reasonable to put in this table but it really was an huge upgrage from om series, unluckily I also found this noise in my table.
 
Offtopic: why is this message sections right side moving whole time?

 

[joQuFIN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Quote:

I ran it through Audacity which is a freeware audio program, I did a Frequency analysis.
 

I actually recorded this sample with audacity. Haven`t used this software too many times. Maybe twice.
 
I listen with the lid up but not fully off. Removing it doesnt change noise.
I`m just wodering, that noise is very unaudible on some "silent" records like Miles Davis Kind of Blue. Yet on Cookin´ With The Miles Davis Quintet it is easily audible. Maybe I should make some more samples to compare them in computer. And what I noticed is that there is more movement on cart when playing those that have more noise. So this might be that arm is not tracking too well.

 

[joQuFIN]

Check the new clean samples on startpost. Ok so I started to test some more records and noticed that some don´t seem to have that noice. I have come into temporary conclusion that this Dual arm doesn´t track well recods that are "wobbled".
 
Edit: I made some graphs about these samples:

Heres a bigger one:http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/joQuFIN/Analysis-1.jpg
To me it looks like the noise I want to remove is two pikes at 75Hz and 100Hz. Those are bigger in Davis sample and on first sample than on VivaLaVida Sample.

 

[joQuFIN]

Editing doesn´t seem to make a lift so here´s an update.

 

[middachten]

After re-listening I come to the conclusion that what you are hearing is probably not a TT problem. The CS505 is not the hottest thing in terms of tracking. But it does a more than decent job to say the least. Your cartridge is a good match for its relatively lightweight arm. And should be tracking very good, when adjusted correctly. And to me this also doesn't sound like a bearing problem. 
Some options I think could be the source:

1. wax residues on the record. You'll be amazed about how many new albums are released with residues from the production process in the grooves. You could clean the lead-in part to check first before you clean the whole record.
2. Cartridge alignment. Have you checked the azimuth and lateral alignment?

 
BTW, what country are you living in? Or, what is your mains frequency, 50Hz or 60Hz?

 

[joQuFIN]

Quote:

BTW, what country are you living in? Or, what is your mains frequency, 50Hz or 60Hz?

In Finland and we have 50Hz. Azimuth and lateral are on level. I will try to clean some record to see if there is some residue in those.

 

[middachten]

Quote:

Quote:

BTW, what country are you living in? Or, what is your mains frequency, 50Hz or 60Hz?

In Finland and we have 50Hz. Azimuth and lateral are on level. I will try to clean some record to see if there is some residue in those.

 
The big hump at 100Hz in the frequency spectrum is a power supply related problem. Almost always a result of a grounding issue somewhere in the chain. The level is not something to get upset about. I've seen some expensive phono amps that do worse than this. But it could help to check the external earth/grounding connections to the CS505. Have you connected a separate earth wire between the chassis of the 505 and the casing of the amp?