[swagadelic]

It must also have a powerful headphone out with at LEAST something like 100mw @ 40 ohm

(my current UR22 by yamaha / steinberg has 6mw @ 40 ohm for comparison )


Currently I'm using an old Philips power amp from the 70s and it does the job but at 12 o clock position for headphones - there is quite a bit of noise from the amp.

At 9 o clock it's plenty loud for my monitors.


I've listened to dozens of other hifi power amps but none sound better than what I have.

So looking for something new.
AND IT CANNOT HAVE A DAC. I already have a dac I will use.

 

[gemNeye]

Emotiva A-100 ---> https://emotiva.com/products/a-100

• Power Output (main outputs; two channels driven):
  50 watts / channel RMS; 8 Ohms; 20 Hz – 20 kHz; <0.05% THD.
  80 watts / channel RMS; continuous; into 4 ohms.
  
  
• Power Output (headphone output; normal mode):
  8 Ohms: 60 mW / channel
  33 Ohms: 200 mW / channel
  47 Ohms: 250 mW / channel
  150 Ohms: 430 mW / channel
  300 Ohms: 440 mW / channel
  600 Ohms: 350 mW / channel
  
  
• Power Output (headphone output; direct drive mode)
  (requires internal jumper; USE WITH CAUTION):
  8 Ohms: 50 watts / channel
  33 Ohms: 12 watts / channel
  47 Ohms: 8.5 watts / channel
  150 Ohms: 2.6 watts / channel
  300 Ohms: 1.3 watts / channel
  600 Ohms: 0.6 watts / channel
  
  
• Broad Band Frequency Response: 20 Hz – 20 kHz + / - 0.08 dB at 1 watt
  (-1 dB at 80 kHz).
  
  
• Signal to Noise Ratio (8 Ohm load): > 110 dB; ref rated power; (A-weighted).
  
  
• Minimum Recommended Load Impedance (per channel): 4 Ohms.
  
  
• Damping Factor (8 Ohm load): > 500.
  
  
• Input Sensitivity (for rated power; 8 Ohm load): 600 mV (0.6V).
  
  
• Input Impedance: 27 kOhms.
  

 

[ProtegeManiac]

It must also have a powerful headphone out with at LEAST something like 100mw @ 40 ohm

(my current UR22 by yamaha / steinberg has 6mw @ 40 ohm for comparison )

100mW is plenty weak for today's standards. That's basically USB-powered DAC with headphone amp territory.

The Schiit Magni3 costs $99 and has around 3W at 32ohms. High and Low Gain switches allow for adjustments when necessary.

 

[swagadelic]

Emotiva A-100 ---> https://emotiva.com/products/a-100

• Power Output (main outputs; two channels driven):
  50 watts / channel RMS; 8 Ohms; 20 Hz – 20 kHz; <0.05% THD.
  80 watts / channel RMS; continuous; into 4 ohms.
  
  
• Power Output (headphone output; normal mode):
  8 Ohms: 60 mW / channel
  33 Ohms: 200 mW / channel
  47 Ohms: 250 mW / channel
  150 Ohms: 430 mW / channel
  300 Ohms: 440 mW / channel
  600 Ohms: 350 mW / channel
  
  
• Power Output (headphone output; direct drive mode)
  (requires internal jumper; USE WITH CAUTION):
  8 Ohms: 50 watts / channel
  33 Ohms: 12 watts / channel
  47 Ohms: 8.5 watts / channel
  150 Ohms: 2.6 watts / channel
  300 Ohms: 1.3 watts / channel
  600 Ohms: 0.6 watts / channel
  
  
• Broad Band Frequency Response: 20 Hz – 20 kHz + / - 0.08 dB at 1 watt
  (-1 dB at 80 kHz).
  
  
• Signal to Noise Ratio (8 Ohm load): > 110 dB; ref rated power; (A-weighted).
  
  
• Minimum Recommended Load Impedance (per channel): 4 Ohms.
  
  
• Damping Factor (8 Ohm load): > 500.
  
  
• Input Sensitivity (for rated power; 8 Ohm load): 600 mV (0.6V).
  
  
• Input Impedance: 27 kOhms.

That looks like exactly something I'm looking for .
I hope it's avaliable in the eu too .
And if it had balanced inputs it would be excellent..

 

[swagadelic]

100mW is plenty weak for today's standards. That's basically USB-powered DAC with headphone amp territory.

The Schiit Magni3 costs $99 and has around 3W at 32ohms. High and Low Gain switches allow for adjustments when necessary.

100mw @ 40 ohm isn't too weak.
Like I said, my current audio interface has an output of 6mw @ 40 ohm

The Schiit magni isn't an option because A, its not avaliable anywhere near my country and b, it cannot drive loudspeakers.

And 3w @ 32 ohm? Isn't it 2w @ 0.1 ohm? So at 32 ohm it'll be something like 400mw or so.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

100mw @ 40 ohm isn't too weak.
Like I said, my current audio interface has an output of 6mw @ 40 ohm

I didn't say "plenty weak" compared to the UR22. I'm saying "plenty weak for today's standards," ie, what kind of power you can get from headphone amplifiers nowadays.

Fiio E10K and K3, USB powered - 150mW at 32ohms, $100
Schiit Asgard, 1000mW at 32ohms, $250
Schiit Magni3, 3000mW at 16ohms, $100
Schiit Lyr3, 9000mW at 16ohms, $400
Meier Rock 13V, 250mA, $200
Meier Classic, 15V/500mA, $400
Violectric V281, 30volts, $900

It's like if I said a 1990 Honda NSX's 275hp is plenty weak when an Acura TL has a 275hp 3.5L V6 and AWD and the current NSX has 550hp.

And 3w @ 32 ohm? Isn't it 2w @ 0.1 ohm? So at 32 ohm it'll be something like 400mw or so.

My mistake - it's 3000mW at 16ohms.

Still, headphone amplifiers do not function like speaker amplifiers. They have a wide range of impedance loads where output is sustained. The Asgard has 1000mW at 32ohms and still has 250mW at 300ohms. The Magni has 2000mW at 32ohms and still has 1.3mW at 50ohms.

The Schiit magni isn't an option because A, its not avaliable anywhere near my country and b, it cannot drive loudspeakers.

A1. https://www.schiit-europe.com/index.php/producten.html

A2.

B. You only mentioned that have the UR22 so I assumed what you had were active monitors, which have their own amplifiers built into each cabinet, and the UR22 normally would send a preamp signal to control the output...something the Magni3 has on the back. Even with passive monitors if you used it with a pure power amp like the NAD 214 (that you might be able to find cheap) or a newer one like the Emotiva A-300, in case you want to get a lot of power into both the headphones and monitors.

What monitors are you using? If those are passive monitors there's the NAD D3020. Maybe the Cayin CS-55A if you really want a lot of power.

 

[swagadelic]

Hello sir, thanks for great reply!

yes I do have the UR22 currently. But with its unusable headphone out (i have the AKG k712) - i have it connected (unbalanced) to the old HiFi amp Im currently using (got at 2nd hand store for like 20 euro).

But, at its 12 o clock position it has tons of noise so Im looking for something better. Although everything Ive tried so far - has been equal or WORSE; than my current amp. So about 4-5 Technics class AA, class A and others from the 80s and 90s - have been WORSE than what I currently have.
Even a dedicated Tube Headphone Amp was not an upgrade. It was louder and no noise - BUT cost about 200 euro and doesnt have ability to run passive monitors - and the audio (while louder and noise free) was NOT Better than my current amp.




Now - in addition to my k712 - I also have a pair of Passive Monitors.

This is why I was looking for a replacement for my current 70s Philips HiFi amp, which has even more powerful headphone out (12 o clock position is a little loud but as long as its noise-free its ok)


So 2 birds with one stone. The Emotiva BasX 100 the first poster linked seems to be perfect for me, and it is also avaliable in Sweden.




The Schiit Magni 3 has been an option for a long time - but since its not avaliable near my country (id have to order it from Netherlands IIRC) is not a perfect option - AND - it cannot drive passive monitors.




Thanks again and I hope this was clearer.
So Im looking for a poweramp with PREFERABLY something like 250mw @ 62 ohm - for its headphone out - although I can accept anything better than 6mw @ 40 ohm

AND

PREFERABLY balanced inputs although its not absolutely necessary.
And ofc - a full power amp able to drive passive monitors.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

yes I do have the UR22 currently. But with its unusable headphone out (i have the AKG k712) - i have it connected (unbalanced) to the old HiFi amp Im currently using (got at 2nd hand store for like 20 euro).

But, at its 12 o clock position it has tons of noise so Im looking for something better. Although everything Ive tried so far - has been equal or WORSE; than my current amp. So about 4-5 Technics class AA, class A and others from the 80s and 90s - have been WORSE than what I currently have.
Even a dedicated Tube Headphone Amp was not an upgrade. It was louder and no noise - BUT cost about 200 euro and doesnt have ability to run passive monitors - and the audio (while louder and noise free) was NOT Better than my current amp

That's because headphone amps integrate with speaker systems in two ways: either the headphone amp has a preamp output to drive a full on pure power amp (ie no built in preamp; or an integrated amp that has an input direct to the power amp stage) for the speakers where the headphone amp controls the volume, or if you're using a full feature preamp or integrated amp, hooking up the headphone amp to the Tape/Rec Out. The latter option is getting rarer with more and more integrated amps coming with built in DACs and subwoofer preamp output instead of Rec Outs that nobody uses.

Now - in addition to my k712...

Not the best choice when speakers are the main listening system and you wouldn't invest a lot on the headphone chain. At 93dB/1mW and 62ohms the K501 and the subsequent K7xx AKGs are the most deceptively hard to drive headphones. Any combination of a problem with those two specs and it's just terrible. You need an amp with a very low output impedance (which is rather common nowadays)...which explains why the tube amp that I assume is most likely OTL and the UR22 sound similar.

...I also have a pair of Passive Monitors.

This is why I was looking for a replacement for my current 70s Philips HiFi amp, which has even more powerful headphone out (12 o clock position is a little loud but as long as its noise-free its ok)

So 2 birds with one stone. The Emotiva BasX 100 the first poster linked seems to be perfect for me, and it is also avaliable in Sweden.

The Schiit Magni 3 has been an option for a long time - but since its not avaliable near my country (id have to order it from Netherlands IIRC) is not a perfect option - AND - it cannot drive passive monitors.

In case you still have one of those Technics power amplifiers and like how your monitors sound driven by them, and one of them happens to be the dual mono Class A, well, you might as well just get a Magni3 even if you spend a bit on it from Sweden. Those amps are fantastic and I've driven a lot of floorstanders with the one I had (SU-7 I think). If I wasn't strapped for cash with no space for a speaker ssytem (and switched to headphones) I would not have sold it. In this scenario you'd still have a powerful and low distortion amp for the speakers that runs in class A with very high current performance (ie no compromise to power output since it's the dual mono Technics with 70wpc on the lowest model in the line up).

I mean sure you'd still have to import it but if you already like what your speakers sound like with the Technics and you still have it, at least you already know what to get out of the speakers with it.

So Im looking for a poweramp with PREFERABLY something like 250mw @ 62 ohm - for its headphone out - although I can accept anything better than 6mw @ 40 ohm

AND

PREFERABLY balanced inputs although its not absolutely necessary.
And ofc - a full power amp able to drive passive monitors.

First things first...maybe don't use "power amp." What you're looking for is an integrated amp, ie, the preamp stage is built into the same chassis as the amplifier stage. In Hi-Fi "power amp" refers specifically to a pure, stand-alone amplifier with no preamp stage built in, like the rest of Emotiva's amplifiers that don't have any volume control (or a remote). This is how I read the title and assumed what you want is a headphone amplifier with a preamp and a pure power amp.

As for the amp you'll get...if you really want a one box solution the Emotiva's your best bet. It might not run in pure Class A even for the headphones but it has a much better headphone amplifier stage than the NAD D3020 (although this one has its own DAC), and doesn't cost as much as the Cayin CS-55a (which is fantastic enough with both speakers and high impedance headphones; and there's the problem - I haven't tried it with anything lower than 300ohms).

 

[swagadelic]

I see. Sounds like a tricky scenario. the k712 are my main listening system, speakers come second.
which is why i just had to get the first amp i found, cause even at the max position on the ur22; its not nearly loud enough for mixing/production. For casual listening its fine.

so atm I do have a one-in-box solution - with the old , yes youre right , INTEGRATED amp from philips made somewhere in the late 70s.
but i just would like a slightly better one


thanks for the time and the information

edit: and if it has balanced inputs it would be a highly sought after presence - since my dac has balanced out; this will help my monitors dont have hum i would assume..

 

[Monsterzero]

I own 6 vintage receivers and use them to drive speakers and some of my headphones. As was mentioned above,the AKG K712 is not a headphone that should be driven from a vintage receiver,nor the Emotiva.

For these types of amps you want headphones that are 250 ohms,or higher.

 

[swagadelic]

i see.
do you have any recommendation of a one-in-box solution then for passive monitors + k712?
(with NO dac, unless its painless to bypass it)

 

[Monsterzero]

I do not,sorry,which isnt to say it doesnt exist,but I dont know of one.

If you look at my gear in my signature you will see that in addition to my receivers I also own a great tube amp(GOTL) and a Gilmore Lite MK 2.
The Gilmore is for headphones like the K712. I have the K701s,ATH AD2000s,Sony MDR-F1 that all sound muddy/unclean thru vintage gear due to the impedance mismatch.
I use my vintage gear and GOTL for my ZMF headphones,Sextetts,K340s,Senn HD250s and vintage DT990s. All those are at minimum 250 ohms.

I would suggest figuring out whats more important to you,the AKGs,or the receiver. If you want to keep the AKGs,you will need a different amp to drive them. You can get vampire connectors and have both the receiver and new amp connected and working at the same time. Something like this.

https://www.ebay.com/p/Vampire-Wire...ter-1-Pair/1507436368?iid=360515505931&chn=ps

So,you would run:

source>DAC>receiver>vampire connector+RCA cables>headphone amp,like Gilmore or Magni 3

Or you can keep the receiver and dump the AKG,and grab a higher impedance headphone.

 

[swagadelic]

hehe i dont intend to dump the k712.
i got this reciever for 20 euro....

a smaller box sized amp would ofc be best aswell. so in case you misunderstood - im not looking for another vintage reciver.
im looking for something new and more fitting for the job.

but thanks for your help

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I see. Sounds like a tricky scenario. the k712 are my main listening system, speakers come second.

Scratch the Magni3 then if the headphones are your primary listening system and splurge a bit more, even if you have to do it later. If you were in the US though I'd say get the cheapest ASAP so you have something to use but the cost of the Magni3 over there plus shipping will take up a lot more money that you could put into something better.

(with NO dac, unless its painless to bypass it)

Make sure the UR22 can output a fixed voltage signal since there's already another active preamp stage in the integrated amplifier. If not the active preamp in the UR22 sending some noise into an amp with another active preamp boosting the voltage again then amplifying it is probably why you were getting noise through th headphones with your current system (noise tends to be less audible on speakers until you have your head/ear a few inches from the tweeter, ie, roughly what you do with a headphone).

edit: and if it has balanced inputs it would be a highly sought after presence - since my dac has balanced out; this will help my monitors dont have hum i would assume..

i see.
do you have any recommendation of a one-in-box solution then for passive monitors + k712?

The passive monitors, the hard to drive K712,the need for a one box drive it all amp together with possibly balanced connection and buying locally are all complicating matters. Assuming you can set aside the last one, you could simplify your choices by taking out one of the first three.

Option 1: Active monitors
If you had active monitors like Genelecs or KRKs you can use an NFB-1Amp with balancedoutput for the monitors and all the power you will realistically use (overkill headroom included). This assumes that teh UR22 can output a fixed voltage line signal.


Option 2: Replace K712 with Sennheiser HD600 or Beyerdynmic DT880 250ohms
Higher impedance, higher sensitivity headphones are comparatively easier to drive. You don't need to worry about output impedance and no need for high current delivery. You still need something better than the UR22 but these aren't going to be as picky with amplifiers. These are going to sound practically 90% of what you'd get from a good headphone amp in terms of distortion and slightly lower than that for absolute output volume. You can use the Emotiva, you can use the Cayin CS-55a, hell even the NAD D3020, but again this assumes the UR22 has a fixed voltage signal.


Option 3: One-box HPamp-Preamp and speaker power amp
AudioGD NFB-1 Amp sends preamp signal to a speaker power amp. If you really want balanced connections, try BAT power amps, or look if Emotiva has some with balanced input.


Option 4: Active monitors, one box DAC-HPamp-Preamp
AudioGD NFB-28 on the output side of the computer taking a signal via SPDIF or USB, then either drives the headphones or sends a balanced preamp signal to the active monitors.

Input side of the computer has the UR22 for recording.

You just have to configure this in Windows with both connected and manually select the input and output device.

It's painless to bypass the DAC on the NFB-28 but if the UR22 can't output a fixed voltage signal or has noise if its max balanced line output is 4V which means you have to set it to max and get that noise down the chain (2Volts on single ended).

 

[Monsterzero]

hehe i dont intend to dump the k712.
i got this reciever for 20 euro....

a smaller box sized amp would ofc be best aswell. so in case you misunderstood - im not looking for another vintage reciver.
im looking for something new and more fitting for the job.

but thanks for your help

I get that. What we are trying to explain to you is your request is a difficult one,mostly due to the K712s and their relatively low impedance,which doesnt match with all-in-one amps that can drive passive speakers as well.