[MD1032]

So here's the deal. I've been around to several stores and forums but I figured I'd put in an inquiry on the forum I trust the most.

I'm going to get a new deck first. There's a deck at Circuit City and Best Buy I've been looking at, it's one of these (could someone please explain the differences between those?), and it's $110 in the store, which means free installation!

As for speakers, the installation on those isn't free, which has me thinking that I might as well look elsewhere for speakers since I'll be putting them in myself. Best Buy/Circuit City (the same store when it comes to car audio the way I see it) have Infinity/Polk/Pioneer/Sony speakers that don't seem to be too highly thought of in the car audio community, so I'm gotten recommendations for Diamond, JL, Boston, etc. instead. Diamond seems to be in the habit of making their speakers all but inaccessible (I would have to go into NY to get them) so they're off the list.

Budget? I don't want to spend more than $250 on the speakers if at all possible.

I looked around on Crutchfield and found these Bostons that a friend of mine said would serve me well. These can be found way cheaper on ebay, FYI.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/In-Da...ategorylist.do
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/In-Da...ategorylist.do

And then I also found JL speakers on ebay that look affordable. They are the TR650-CXi and TR690-CXi.

Overall, though, I don't know what to do. Both of these are highly recommended speakers, but I can't really audition either of them, except JL, they have a dealer nearby and I stopped by once but then realized I had no idea how they would sound until I put them in my car.

Anyway, any help would be appreciated.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD1032 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm going to get a new deck first. There's a deck at Circuit City and Best Buy I've been looking at, it's one of these (could someone please explain the differences between those?),

The main differences are the number of pre-amp outputs and the pre-amp output voltages, iPod capability, and satellite ready or not.

Other than that they look to be nearly identical in their capabilities.

 

[Zacorias]

First thing i learned before setting up the audio in my car is that you should never have circuit city, best buy, etc. install anything in your car (they do not do a neat or organized job on the wiring, its just plain BAD!). I would see if there are any car audio specialty stores in your area to install the headunit, or just do it yourself.
For speakers, there is a small company in Newton, IA which I would highly recommend that have highly praised sound quality. The speakers you are looking for are the 6000s v.2 - http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/pro...products_id=49
they are two way speakers and you have the choice of leaving the tweeter in the speaker or mounting them somewhere else in you car, they also come with crossovers.
btw, they are $95 dollars a pair if you buy them with the forum discount: http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/pro...roducts_id=349

 

[MD1032]

What would CC/BB do differently? I mean, if I order the thing through Crutchfield, it's the same price, BUT it would take about a half hour to put in, and I don't know what I would be doing differently. It's just a head unit swap. I certainly wouldn't trust them to do my speakers, but I don't see why a head unit swap is all that difficult or something you could mess up.

Would those speakers you linked to offer any significant advantage over Boston/JL? Also, where would I put those crossovers? I do like the idea of a good crossover and recognize that it's important, but do other speakers not typically come with one or something?

 

[ServinginEcuador]

MD1032,

A bad/cheap install shop can create some nightmares when they work on your car. I had a nice gouge in my dash, improperly installed head unit with gaps around it due to a hasty job, wiring and soldering done poorly and needing repair, etc. It also takes a new DIN cage to install a new head unit, and getting that installed correctly, so just pulling out the stock unit and putting in a new one is a little over simplified. A good shop is worth the hassle.

And no, not all speakers come with a x-over. I bought some JL Audio two-ways that didn't have one, and they sucked. I returned them for a more expensive set of MB Quartz that were awesome.

The x-over can be installed in the door itself, or in your dash - wherever you have room.

BTW - while you have your doors apart for the installation have some RAAMMat or Dynamat Extreme installed. It will dramatically improve the sound, and get rid of some road noise in the process.

 

[MD1032]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServinginEcuador /img/forum/go_quote.gif MD1032, A bad/cheap install shop can create some nightmares when they work on your car. I had a nice gouge in my dash, improperly installed head unit with gaps around it due to a hasty job, wiring and soldering done poorly and needing repair, etc. It also takes a new DIN cage to install a new head unit, and getting that installed correctly, so just pulling out the stock unit and putting in a new one is a little over simplified. A good shop is worth the hassle. And no, not all speakers come with a x-over. I bought some JL Audio two-ways that didn't have one, and they sucked. I returned them for a more expensive set of MB Quartz that were awesome. The x-over can be installed in the door itself, or in your dash - wherever you have room. BTW - while you have your doors apart for the installation have some RAAMMat or Dynamat Extreme installed. It will dramatically improve the sound, and get rid of some road noise in the process.

I did consider that, but then again, it's a '97 Civic. It's an old car with 200k miles on it. It's already an inherently noisy car and I'm not going to try the whole Dynamat thing in hopes of reducing road noise in a car this old. This is merely a slap-it-in stock radio replacement.

I think I will take your suggestion! Crutchfield supplies the Honda adaptor required to mount the new head unit properly, and instructions on how to do it, so I'm thinking that I will just go with that. Also, I'm actually going to go with the unit that's $10 more but has a sub output. I'm not planning to add a sub, but I'd rather pay the $10 now if I decide I want one down the road.

That is interesting that your JL's didn't have a crossover. I wonder if those JL's I'm looking at have one. Those Bostons advertise that they have one built in, which I think is probably a good thing. I'll have to look at those Elemental Designs speakers more, though, see if I can find more on them. If they're really a better speaker, I might get them instead.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

MD,

The already noisy car might negate any improvement when using the Dynamat or RAAMMat, but for another $60 or so it might make a nice improvement on bass response and overall SQ. Might be worth it, might be a waste of money.

Either way the choice is yours. I just wanted to throw out some suggestions to help.

 

[kramer5150]

IM partial to image dynamics for their imaging and soundstage. Compression horns are my favs but I doubt CC or BB would know what do do with them. Powerbase are my subs of choice. I'm less finicky about amps, although I like the older zed audio hifonics models.

 

[Zacorias]

If you have a '97 civic with 200k miles that is kind of junky and it will possibly break down in the near future, why would you invest money into a new sound system? If I were you, I would wait until that car breaks down (and suffer listening to the system for a little while), then when you get a new car, install everything. If you install all the speakers and headunit and after 5k miles the car breaks down... then what are you going to do? My advise would be to be patient with what you are going to buy and do a little more research.

 

[BDA_ABAT]

If you do decide to do the car stereo upgrade, would encourage a Crutchfield purchase for the head unit. The directions are very helpful, the available 800# is EXTREMELY nice (great security blanket), and they provide you with the appropriate "accoutrement" needed to get the install done. I'm a chowderhead with 10 left thumbs and I've managed to install two head units over the years with help from Crutchfield.

For speakers, could consider something like these CDT component speakers:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...ay&Product_ID=

One caveat with car audio.... head units rarely have enough power to effectively drive good speakers to normal listening levels. Even if the speakers sound OK, adding amps can help a great deal. Subwoofers (and the amps to power them) help a good deal. Of course, audio is all about compromise... might not be worth putting money into getting good sound from an old car you don't expect to keep for long. But it's something to think about when looking for the next vehicle (talk about an upgrade!!!).

Anyway, for $250, the CDT will provide a very pleasant sonic experience. The silk tweeter is just LUSH!

 

[MD1032]

Firstly, thanks for all your suggestions,

I am not suggesting the car will break down in the near future. It's still a great car and we just got the original clutch replaced and the guy told us that we would get at least another 100k miles out of it. It's worth it to me to invest some money in this. When this car eventually kicks the bucket down the road (although it shows no signs of slowing down yet), I can always take these speakers and head unit out to use in the next car.

My point is, it's already an old and used car, and going completely nuts, even going so far as to modify the car (eg dynamat), is just not something I personally want to do. However, I do listen to music A LOT. And if I can put a nice stereo system in the car for $350-400 that will serve me well for the rest of the life of this car, that sounds fantastic to me. The MP3 CD player especially will be extremely useful! I'm tired of making/using cassettes. Plus, I can't stand the fact that the volume knob is almost broken.

I have considered installing an amp also to go with the head unit, but it would be an added expense of unknown cost and I don't know what would be involved with doing such an install. Can anyone enlighten me?

BDA ABAT, that link is broken. But you've convinced me to order the head unit on Crutchfield. I'd already heard great things about them.

 

[rhythmdevils]

Zacorias,
These speakers look interesting! Are they harsh at all?

I gave up on car speakers after installing like 4 different sets of speakers, each one making my ears feel like they were being crammed full of diamonds, esspecially in long listening sessions. Or maybe it´s my alpine deck, i dont know. ive been meaing to do soem tests...

I wound up velcroing some old bookshelf speakers into the back, above the rear seat (Ive got a wagon) and that is the best ive gotten so far. Sounds like the band is playing in my back seat.

So I would be really interested in car speakers that have the sennheiser sort of sound...

 

[chris downing]

If you want a good headunit, I would suggest an Alpine unit. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-E7JW7QY...0&I=500CDE9870 that unit is a fairly good one ans it stays within you headunit price range. The bassengine that it has gives you good sound control. I have stock speakers in my car and with some quality tuning, I could get the rear speakers to sound like a sub, while having good treble and midbass up front.

As for speakers, If you want good sound, I would advise getting a component set, or the midrange and tweeter are separate and there is a crossover. That would give you the best sound and soundstage without using any sound dampining material. 2-way or 3-way speakers sound "good", but they keep the sound stage toward the floor because the speakers are mounted low on the door. With the component set, the tweeter is separate and it is usually mounted above the armrest on a door. It brings the soundstage up more toward your listing area. Treble or high frequencies don't travel as well as lower frequencies, so they need to be aimed more toward your ears. That works well for the front, for the rear any single, 2-, or 3-way speakers would work. As far as brands, I would suggest JL, Alpine, Infinity, CDT, Focal, Rainbow, brands sucha s those give you long life with great sound.

Also, if you are going to switch these speakers out of the car when it dies, I would suggest buying very nice speakers now, that way they last long.

Installing an amp is a lot more work than most would think. You have to run a power wire from the battery to the amp. You have to run RCA's from the headunit to the amp, there is also a small remote turn on wire that goes to the amp, and you also have to find a place to run a ground wire to. As far as running the signal and power wires, a good rule of thumb is to always run them on opposite sides of the car. Meaning power on one. signal on the other, all under the carpet. That way it eliminates any interference. Also installing an amp put an added strain on your electrical system. You may have to install a larger alternator if you install a large amp.

FInally, for installing it, If you have any friends that have done any thing like that before have them help. Wirng a headunit is fairly simple. You have to buy a car wiring adapter, which plugs into where your stack radio does, and gives you colored wires for your speakers, power, ground, antena, remote turn on, and accesory. The new headunit will have a wiring harness that plugs into the back of it, it will have almost the same colored wires as the car wiring adapter, so basically you just match up colors, its not hard unless your colorblind. You also have buy the dash install kit. the total for those at like walmart is $20- $30. Even if you did it yourself, it would be a good learning experience.

 

[Zacorias]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris downing /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you want a good headunit, I would suggest an Alpine unit. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-E7JW7QY...0&I=500CDE9870 that unit is a fairly good one ans it stays within you headunit price range.

This is the exact headunit that I would recommend for that price range as well.

rhythmdevils, to my ears they are not harsh at all especially if you mount the tweeter on the speaker like shown in the picture on the website. IMHO there isnt a better speaker on the market for that price, and Elemental Design has amazing customer service.

I think that to achieve high quality sound, you are going to need to dynomat or eDead (same type of thing sold by elemental design) and you have to run them active (meaning powering them by an amp). Since installing the amp is kind of a pain, you may want to run these speakers of the Headunit until you get a new car.

what are you going to do about the lower frequencies? Are you considering a subwoofer?

 

[MD1032]

I was hoping that those speakers would provide sufficient bass on their own, actually. The stock radio sounds bleh, but it does have some decent bass, so I'm guessing aftermarket speakers like those bostons should at least be able to match that.

So why would you recommend that Alpine over the Pioneer I mentioned? I mean, the way I see it, the Pioneer has slightly more power (although probably irrelevant) and it has an important feature the Alpine lacks - A VOLUME KNOB. Seriously, that is a bare minimum here. If there's a higher end Alpine that does have that (check the link), I'll shell out the cash, but you pay more than the Pioneer for it. And seriously, having to push those buttons up and down would drive me absolutely insane. I'm looking around here and you have to shell out $180 just for Alpine to give you a sub out like the Pioneer I initially posted does. Also, I've looked at some of these Alpines in person and their buttons feel really cheap/flimsy even on the expensive models. The Pioneers aren't much better, but as the Pioneers go up in price, their looks and feel reflect it.

What other advantages does the Alpine have? That bass engine actually looks useful to be honest, but the display looks smaller, like it displays less characters than the Pioneer's already huge 16-character display.

Sorry to play the devil's advocate here, but I love the suggestions and responses and I'm just trying to see what the best thing to get is for the car. It is a captial investment compared to how much money I'll be making this summer.