[Staffan O]

Hej

I need help choosing a headphone amplifier with tubes. I have a pair Sennheiser HD600 and a pair Beyerdynamic T1 and today a use a Musical Fidelity M1 HPA amp. The HD600 sounds, to me, a little closed and it feels as they lack a little air and treble. The T1 sounds a little cold, lacks midrange and I don’t feel involved. And both sounds a little dull and I miss the glow and ”magic” I experience with my Tube Technology Unisis t (replaced stock tubes) which drives my ATC SCM19v2 speakers.
The problem is that here in Sweden I can’t find many brands with tube amps for headphones in my price range ($900-$1200). The only one I’ve found is Line Magnetic LM-Mini 218IA.
I’ve read about Woo Audio, Schiit Audio, Icon Audio and some more, but theres non dealer for them in Sweden. So maybe I buy an amplifier just based on your advice

To find a tube amp that works with both my headphones would be ideal, but I suppose that it means I have to change tubes. But that is fine with me if it’s easy to access the tubes.

Any thoughts?

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

One amp to rule them all:

Feliks Audio Elise, you buy direct from the manufacturer and they are based in Poland so no import tax

 

[Monsterzero]

Hej

I need help choosing a headphone amplifier with tubes. I have a pair Sennheiser HD600 and a pair Beyerdynamic T1 and today a use a Musical Fidelity M1 HPA amp. The HD600 sounds, to me, a little closed and it feels as they lack a little air and treble. The T1 sounds a little cold, lacks midrange and I don’t feel involved. And both sounds a little dull and I miss the glow and ”magic” I experience with my Tube Technology Unisis t (replaced stock tubes) which drives my ATC SCM19v2 speakers.
The problem is that here in Sweden I can’t find many brands with tube amps for headphones in my price range ($900-$1200). The only one I’ve found is Line Magnetic LM-Mini 218IA.
I’ve read about Woo Audio, Schiit Audio, Icon Audio and some more, but theres non dealer for them in Sweden. So maybe I buy an amplifier just based on your advice

To find a tube amp that works with both my headphones would be ideal, but I suppose that it means I have to change tubes. But that is fine with me if it’s easy to access the tubes.

Any thoughts?

TBH,get different headphones....serious.

My first foray into this hobby was a Woo Audio WA2 + Beyer T1 +Sennheiser HD600....Even with the highly regarded WA2 driving them the 600 always sounded closed-in(especially when compared to the T1).It also lacked impact and sub-bass extension.

The T1 always sounded clinical and the mids never had any weight behind them.guitars lacked chunk,etc.... the sound stage and imaging was great,but I found myself dissecting songs,rather than enjoying them.

I made a lot of posts,similar to your post and even spoke to one of the main guys over at Woo Audio and it was pretty much universally recommended that I get different headphones.

TL;DR

Different headphones will have a bigger change in the sound than throwing money at a tube amp will.

 

[cossix]

Preach ^^

 

[007shark76]

@Staffan O What DAC are you using?

 

[100VoltTube]

I realize it's a lot less than you're prepared to spend, but a bottlehead crack (~$300, more with speedball) would suit your needs quite well. You could get a new pair of cans as well, maybe a Beyerdynamic Amiron, DT1990 (both $599), or LCD-2 ($1000).
The Feliks Audio Elise is also supposed to be good.
You may also want to look into the Koss ESP-950. You can get a pair of those for as low as $600 if you wait for a sale to come up.

 

[buke9]

Will I've not heard the Felix I've only heard good things about it. That said you are very unlikely to get the 600's to be airy no matter what amp. I'll reserve comment on the T1's till I hear them on a better amp. There is nothing wrong looking for a tube amp but they will not transform a headphone. I love my tube amps and would recommend both but for the right headphone and what your looking for. I only heard the I'm guessing the original T1's out of a Beyer A20 and they were just too bright for me and I don't mind a bright headphone. In hindsight I should have brought them over to my setup a AmpsandSound Kenzie and a Bottlehead Crack. But I didn't and the reason I said I reserved judgment on the T1's.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hej

I need help choosing a headphone amplifier with tubes. I have a pair Sennheiser HD600 and a pair Beyerdynamic T1 and today a use a Musical Fidelity M1 HPA amp. The HD600 sounds, to me, a little closed and it feels as they lack a little air and treble. The T1 sounds a little cold, lacks midrange and I don’t feel involved. And both sounds a little dull and I miss the glow and ”magic” I experience with my Tube Technology Unisis t (replaced stock tubes) which drives my ATC SCM19v2 speakers.
The problem is that here in Sweden I can’t find many brands with tube amps for headphones in my price range ($900-$1200). The only one I’ve found is Line Magnetic LM-Mini 218IA.
I’ve read about Woo Audio, Schiit Audio, Icon Audio and some more, but theres non dealer for them in Sweden. So maybe I buy an amplifier just based on your advice

To find a tube amp that works with both my headphones would be ideal, but I suppose that it means I have to change tubes. But that is fine with me if it’s easy to access the tubes.

Any thoughts?

Sell both headphones, get an HD650 and a Woo Audio WA3 or Darkvoice DV336se.

 

[Staffan O]

Just to clarify. He original thought was to find a really good amp for my beloved HD600. To make them open up a little and to get that “tube magic”. Then along the search for this amp the price tag increased and I thought; OK, if I also can get my T1 to sound better by rolling tubes I can live with paying $900-$1200.


@ Oscar-HiFi
I have never heard of this one, but it appears to be is a very interesting amp. Know anyone who has tried it with Beyerdynamic T1 and/or Sennheiser HD600 and which tubes they used?

@ monsterzero
Yes, I agree that buying a new pair of headphones would have a greater change in the sound, but it’s not a completely “new sound” I’m seeking. I just want to be able to adjust the sound a bit. And I want that “tube magic”

My thought is that maybe I can find an amp that makes my T1 sound really good and then by changing tubes I can get my HD600 to sound really good. Or that is hoping for too much?

@ 007shark76
Musical Fidelity M1 HPA. I think it’s considered to be very neutral. And in my opinion a little dull.

@ 100VoltTube
Bottlehead Crack means “building” and soldering and I have all five thumbs in the middle of my hand.

@ ProtegeManiac
When the HD650 came out I gave them a try. Didn’t like them. I recall that I thought them to be too dark and veiled.

 

[domsch1988]

...

My thought is that maybe I can find an amp that makes my T1 sound really good and then by changing tubes I can get my HD600 to sound really good. Or that is hoping for too much?
...

While I've got no extensive experience in rolling tubes in Headphone Amplifiers, i do have 20 years of experience with guitar tube Amplifiers. Arguably, in those, the Tubes are much, much more "sound producing" than in Headphone amplifiers. The Tube is really forming the distortion and overall characteristics here. And even then, changing tubes is about the last 1% or so. Changes from one tube to another can be heard but certainly won't change the overall characteristics of an amp.
If your plan is to warm up the T1 while also clearing up the HD600 i think you're out of luck with a single amp. Those goals are to far apart to accommodate with a "simple" tube change.

I might be wrong though, in that the circuit of a headphone amp i vastly different from a guitar amp (i doubt that).

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

Just to clarify. He original thought was to find a really good amp for my beloved HD600. To make them open up a little and to get that “tube magic”. Then along the search for this amp the price tag increased and I thought; OK, if I also can get my T1 to sound better by rolling tubes I can live with paying $900-$1200.


@ Oscar-HiFi
I have never heard of this one, but it appears to be is a very interesting amp. Know anyone who has tried it with Beyerdynamic T1 and/or Sennheiser HD600 and which tubes they used?

@ monsterzero
Yes, I agree that buying a new pair of headphones would have a greater change in the sound, but it’s not a completely “new sound” I’m seeking. I just want to be able to adjust the sound a bit. And I want that “tube magic”

My thought is that maybe I can find an amp that makes my T1 sound really good and then by changing tubes I can get my HD600 to sound really good. Or that is hoping for too much?

@ 007shark76
Musical Fidelity M1 HPA. I think it’s considered to be very neutral. And in my opinion a little dull.

@ 100VoltTube
Bottlehead Crack means “building” and soldering and I have all five thumbs in the middle of my hand.

@ ProtegeManiac
When the HD650 came out I gave them a try. Didn’t like them. I recall that I thought them to be too dark and veiled.

I used it last year at CanJam London with the T1 hooked up to it and it makes a great pairing, super wide sound and slightly more natural sound it pairs really well with the T1, go over to the Elise threads and ask there, lots of owners use it with the T1. I was using it with the stock tubes, as it was a loan unit I had to send back I didn't get into tube rolling.

I do own the Feliks Espressivo which is cheaper and more limited in tube rolling capabilities, but that is also an excellent amp for the T1, I used the T1 in my review of the Espressivo.

Not tried the HD600 on it though.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Just to clarify. He original thought was to find a really good amp for my beloved HD600. To make them open up a little and to get that “tube magic”. Then along the search for this amp the price tag increased and I thought; OK, if I also can get my T1 to sound better by rolling tubes I can live with paying $900-$1200.

@ monsterzero
Yes, I agree that buying a new pair of headphones would have a greater change in the sound, but it’s not a completely “new sound” I’m seeking. I just want to be able to adjust the sound a bit. And I want that “tube magic”
My thought is that maybe I can find an amp that makes my T1 sound really good and then by changing tubes I can get my HD600 to sound really good. Or that is hoping for too much?
---
@ ProtegeManiac
When the HD650 came out I gave them a try. Didn’t like them. I recall that I thought them to be too dark and veiled.

I was under the impression that you wanted the kind of sound that basically has so much "tube magic" in it Norah Jones would sound like she needs to snort chicken soup to clear her sinus (which is what I got out of the HD600 and Little Dot MkII once the earpads got broken in enough).

Still, do you even like the T1 better than the HD600? What about it exactly? I mean I personally never really liked it - treble wasn't as sharp as some other Beyers but it seemed a bit weird. Because if it's just the imaging that you like you might as well just use the HD600 with a WA3. Or if you're not limiting yourself to tubes, try some European solid state amps - the Meier Jazz FF or Classic FF, or the Violectric V281. A little warm but not "tubey" warm (ie far from overdone - just more like "distortion pattern doesn't make it brighter"), and since they'll spit out a lot of clean power, crank it up and everything sounds more lively with no distortion nor noise getting in the way (though you won't get the tube distortion either). Imaging is great especially with Meier Crossfeed as it helps make for a deeper soundstage.

@ 007shark76
Musical Fidelity M1 HPA. I think it’s considered to be very neutral. And in my opinion a little dull.

Kind of like the O2, but crank it up and it lacks the O2's sharper treble but also its bottom end. Kind of boring, basically - none of the treble finesse nor bottom end grunt that you some amps deliver in equal measure (the O2 is still a great reference though). I'd go with the Woo WA3 and try some other tubes; alternately, there's the Meier Classic FF, Violectric V281, Schiit Lyr.

 

[Monsterzero]

Just to clarify. He original thought was to find a really good amp for my beloved HD600. To make them open up a little and to get that “tube magic”. Then along the search for this amp the price tag increased and I thought; OK, if I also can get my T1 to sound better by rolling tubes I can live with paying $900-$1200.

@ monsterzero
Yes, I agree that buying a new pair of headphones would have a greater change in the sound, but it’s not a completely “new sound” I’m seeking. I just want to be able to adjust the sound a bit. And I want that “tube magic”

My thought is that maybe I can find an amp that makes my T1 sound really good and then by changing tubes I can get my HD600 to sound really good. Or that is hoping for too much?

The HD600 sounds, to me, a little closed and it feels as they lack a little air and treble. The T1 sounds a little cold, lacks midrange and I don’t feel involved.

As i said in my previous post i had the highly regarded Woo Audio WA2 driving my T1s and HD600s and even then the headphones suffered from the same issues that you described in your initial post.

The WA2 wasnt able to flesh out the mids of the T1.Guitars still sounded un-inspired and thin.The mid bass slam was still virtually non-existent and the highs were...well Beyer highs

Im not sitting here telling you a nice OTL wont make your HPs sound "better".What I am saying is that the issues that you described previously still persisted when I had my original set-up.I ended up selling both HPs and the amp and havent looked back nor felt like I was missing anything.I have not heard every OTL out there so perhaps theres a new magic combo that will transform the T1 into a meaty warm-ish beast...I highly doubt it.From my experience (and pretty much everyone elses too),you can only change the characteristics of a given HP so much before you need to realize that a different HP is whats needed.

Just my .02,YMMV.

 

[100VoltTube]

People sometimes sell their Cracks, or make them specifically to sell later. Here's an awesome modded one wired for European voltage.

Amps do change the character of the sound, but they are just icing on the headphone cake (yum... cake ) If you want a subtle change in sound, you probably want a new amp. If you want a totally different sound, you want different headphones.

 

[L8MDL]

I'm pretty happy with my Valhalla 2 tube amp and my Senn 600's. Tube rolling is fun, too!