[iamcustomer]

I have adi-2 and several grado headphones (gs1000i, ps500e and RS2e) and hd580. Is worth to try an amp such as Liquid Platinum or Woo WA 6se?

Thanks in advance!

 

[tomb]

I have adi-2 and several grado headphones (gs1000i, ps500e and RS2e) and hd580. Is worth to try an amp such as Liquid Platinum or Woo WA 6se?

Thanks in advance!

Just a guess, but the Liquid Platinum is tube hybrid. Otherwise, it would not possess an ultra-low output impedance (0.14 ohms single-ended, 0.07 ohms balanced). Grados will sound harsher than ever with that kind of amp. Grados do better with relatively high (compared to solid-state) output impedances - single digits at least. The Woo, with its output transformer-coupling would do much better. The biggest drawback with the Woo is that it probably doesn't use some of the better, brand-name output transformers, such as Cinemag or Lundahl. If they did, they'd promote it in their literature.

Just an FYI, but fully differential drive (balanced) is not really an advantage with Grados. They don't need much voltage anyway.

Back in the day, the Mapletree tube-output-transformer amplifiers were among the best to pair with Grados. Pete Millett's Pinnacle (Apex Hi Fi) or something custom from ECP Audio would be a good choice, too.

 

[Deolum]

Grados are very hard to pair. You have to demo them in a lot of systems. I found them essentially sensitive like no other headphone benefitting of an analogue sounding source. I think these headphones are not really made for the modern clean sounding dacs and amps. Very hit & miss when i had my GS1000e.

 

[iamcustomer]

Just a guess, but the Liquid Platinum is tube hybrid. Otherwise, it would not possess an ultra-low output impedance (0.14 ohms single-ended, 0.07 ohms balanced). Grados will sound harsher than ever with that kind of amp. Grados do better with relatively high (compared to solid-state) output impedances - single digits at least. The Woo, with its output transformer-coupling would do much better. The biggest drawback with the Woo is that it probably doesn't use some of the better, brand-name output transformers, such as Cinemag or Lundahl. If they did, they'd promote it in their literature.

Just an FYI, but fully differential drive (balanced) is not really an advantage with Grados. They don't need much voltage anyway.

Back in the day, the Mapletree tube-output-transformer amplifiers were among the best to pair with Grados. Pete Millett's Pinnacle (Apex Hi Fi) or something custom from ECP Audio would be a good choice, too.

Hi, Tomb, thank you so much for the suggestions. It is very helpful. Really appreciate it.
I did some homework based on your post. As I learned, a larger damping coefficient will work better for a headphone system. Because Grado has a low normal Impedance of 32ohms, a low output impedance of an amp can generate a large damping coefficient. It seems that Liquid Platinum with ultra low output impedance is a good choice. Did I misunderstanding something here?
Thanks again!

 

[iamcustomer]

Grados are very hard to pair. You have to demo them in a lot of systems. I found them essentially sensitive like no other headphone benefitting of an analogue sounding source. I think these headphones are not really made for the modern clean sounding dacs and amps. Very hit & miss when i had my GS1000e.

Thanks. I agree with you. I tried grado on my ipod classic. It seems the sound is very good, but it is not improved a lot on my desktop system.

 

[buke9]

Hi, Tomb, thank you so much for the suggestions. It is very helpful. Really appreciate it.
I did some homework based on your post. As I learned, a larger damping coefficient will work better for a headphone system. Because Grado has a low normal Impedance of 32ohms, a low output impedance of an amp can generate a large damping coefficient. It seems that Liquid Platinum with ultra low output impedance is a good choice. Did I misunderstanding something here?
Thanks again!

I don’t have the Grados you do but had the RS1’s for a while and now have a pair of Hemps. I tried them out on a few amps just now to see if one was harsher than another the problem I have is almost all have very low output impedance Original Cavalli Liquid Carbon ,Monoprice Cavalli Liquid Platinum, HiBy R6Pro are the ones I tried and can’t say any where harsher than another and a toss up between the Cavalli’s on what I liked better. Then tried the Bottlehead Crack which has a much higher output impedance and while certain aspects sound pretty good the bass is the problem with boom and a bit of distortion and that is with a Tung Sol 5998 which is supposed to be better with lower impedance can but it is said 120 ohm is the target and maybe 90 or so and they still sounded like Grados and didn’t find them less harsh than the others by much at all still have that Grado treble energy.
Then tried them on my Amps and Sound Kenzie which is a full transformer coupled tube amp with taps for 600 ohm and 32 ohm headphone’s and the most expensive of the others by quite a bit and my favorite as well. The Grado sound is still there and also didn’t find it to be that much less harsh than the others as well you still know you are listening to Grados but I will say the bass is more there than on the others and in a controlled fashion as opposed to the Crack.
Bottom line I personally don’t think the Platinum is much more harsher sounding with my Hemps than several of my other amps but will say I don’t think this is the amp I would look for in driving a pair of Grados myself as I have mostly higher impedance dynamics and planars that the amp does much better with.

 

[iamcustomer]

I don’t have the Grados you do but had the RS1’s for a while and now have a pair of Hemps. I tried them out on a few amps just now to see if one was harsher than another the problem I have is almost all have very low output impedance Original Cavalli Liquid Carbon ,Monoprice Cavalli Liquid Platinum, HiBy R6Pro are the ones I tried and can’t say any where harsher than another and a toss up between the Cavalli’s on what I liked better. Then tried the Bottlehead Crack which has a much higher output impedance and while certain aspects sound pretty good the bass is the problem with boom and a bit of distortion and that is with a Tung Sol 5998 which is supposed to be better with lower impedance can but it is said 120 ohm is the target and maybe 90 or so and they still sounded like Grados and didn’t find them less harsh than the others by much at all still have that Grado treble energy.
Then tried them on my Amps and Sound Kenzie which is a full transformer coupled tube amp with taps for 600 ohm and 32 ohm headphone’s and the most expensive of the others by quite a bit and my favorite as well. The Grado sound is still there and also didn’t find it to be that much less harsh than the others as well you still know you are listening to Grados but I will say the bass is more there than on the others and in a controlled fashion as opposed to the Crack.
Bottom line I personally don’t think the Platinum is much more harsher sounding with my Hemps than several of my other amps but will say I don’t think this is the amp I would look for in driving a pair of Grados myself as I have mostly higher impedance dynamics and planars that the amp does much better with.

Thank you very much for the information, Buke9. I now can see that Platinum is not a good choice for grado phones. It saves me the effort to try. Thanks again!

 

[tomb]

Hi, Tomb, thank you so much for the suggestions. It is very helpful. Really appreciate it.
I did some homework based on your post. As I learned, a larger damping coefficient will work better for a headphone system. Because Grado has a low normal Impedance of 32ohms, a low output impedance of an amp can generate a large damping coefficient. It seems that Liquid Platinum with ultra low output impedance is a good choice. Did I misunderstanding something here?
Thanks again!

Yes, it appears you have a slight misunderstanding, or rather - I didn't explain it sufficiently.

The point I was trying to make is that it's the wrong direction - with Grados - to pursue super large damping coefficients. This can be explained by realizing that Grados already have a high-degree of inherent damping. This contrasts radically with something like a Focal Utopia or Clear, where you can see the driver move back and forth simply by swinging the headphones carrying them in your hand as you walk.

Damping involves finding an optimum equilibrium. Falling off on either side of the equilibrium optimum will result in poorer driver control. The pursuit of ultra-low output impedance amplifiers with Grados often results in more harshness, not less, because the headphone/amplifier combination is over-damped.

This is my own empirical evidence, with the experience of a friend who has designed and built amplifiers specifically for Grados for many years. It's why I originally stated that Grados prefer amplifiers with output impedances in the single digits. By stating "single digits," I was describing an output impedance much higher than most solid-state amplifiers, which are often in the tenths of a single digit.

This is why, I believe, that so many prefer tube amplifiers with Grados: not because some tube amps are bloated with mid-bass, but because the output impedance is typically significantly higher than your run-of-the-mill solid-state amplifier. That higher output impedance of a tube amp typically results in less harshness powering Grados than with solid-state amplifiers.

 

[Stevko]

Schiit vali 2+ or magni 3+

 

[iamcustomer]

Yes, it appears you have a slight misunderstanding, or rather - I didn't explain it sufficiently.

The point I was trying to make is that it's the wrong direction - with Grados - to pursue super large damping coefficients. This can be explained by realizing that Grados already have a high-degree of inherent damping. This contrasts radically with something like a Focal Utopia or Clear, where you can see the driver move back and forth simply by swinging the headphones carrying them in your hand as you walk.

Damping involves finding an optimum equilibrium. Falling off on either side of the equilibrium optimum will result in poorer driver control. The pursuit of ultra-low output impedance amplifiers with Grados often results in more harshness, not less, because the headphone/amplifier combination is over-damped.

This is my own empirical evidence, with the experience of a friend who has designed and built amplifiers specifically for Grados for many years. It's why I originally stated that Grados prefer amplifiers with output impedances in the single digits. By stating "single digits," I was describing an output impedance much higher than most solid-state amplifiers, which are often in the tenths of a single digit.

This is why, I believe, that so many prefer tube amplifiers with Grados: not because some tube amps are bloated with mid-bass, but because the output impedance is typically significantly higher than your run-of-the-mill solid-state amplifier. That higher output impedance of a tube amp typically results in less harshness powering Grados than with solid-state amplifiers.

Thank you much again, Tomb. Now, I am clear what I need for my grado phone. You are so helpful and kind. Very appreciated it!

 

[iamcustomer]

Schiit vali 2+ or magni 3+

Is this good for Grado phones?

 

[Stevko]

Is this good for Grado phones?

Yes, very good

 

[buke9]

Thank you very much for the information, Buke9. I now can see that Platinum is not a good choice for grado phones. It saves me the effort to try. Thanks again!

Yep not my favorite.

 

[iamcustomer]

Yep not my favorite.

thanks again!

 

[buke9]

thanks again!

Not a problem.