[honeybee123]

Here is his conclusion though:
"The picture emerging from the measurements is not clear cut. In general the Topping A30 has lower distortion but that is accompanied with much higher output impedance and lower power output.

Both units provide similar enjoyment when listening to music at low to reasonably loud levels (with headphones I tested). Above that both fall apart and can't compete with likes of iFi iDSD Black Edition. I would give the nod to Topping A30 if you listen loud as I do.

Both Topping A30 and Schiit Magni 3 are recommended for budget friendly choices in headphone amplifiers. Let your preferences in looks, usability, etc. guide you in your selection." (emphasis added)

Seems like a pretty positive appraisal to me...

Should i get topping stack then? D30 and A30?
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01MSTEAHA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2UWBVY2W3G8CS&psc=1
also what is the difference between these two?
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01JU9EA2U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A2UWBVY2W3G8CS&psc=1
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01N37HINI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A28DPMZ26F13GH&psc=1

 

[ProtegeManiac]

support is not really a problem, the problem is that half of amp/dac's are not sold in Europe so you have to order them from US and that will cost too much with customs and other taxes

Meier's in Germany and prices on the website include EU taxes and shipping.

 

[honeybee123]

Meier's in Germany and prices on the website include EU taxes and shipping.

Yeah I understood that, but in my opinion I would be better off saving more money on the next upgrade than spending it on an amp, which I would have to upgrade In the end once again. Unless meiers is considered to be somewhat endgame

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Yeah I understood that, but in my opinion I would be better off saving more money on the next upgrade than spending it on an amp, which I would have to upgrade In the end once again. Unless meiers is considered to be somewhat endgame

If you want something you won't likely upgrade (as long as you put in a 2V input signal) then maybe go for the Meier Jazz FF than the Rock or Rock FF.

Although if you don't mind not running with more Class A bias and a bit more power the Rock and Rock FF aren't a bad choice either.

 

[phthora]

Should i get topping stack then? D30 and A30?
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01MSTEAHA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2UWBVY2W3G8CS&psc=1
also what is the difference between these two?
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01JU9EA2U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A2UWBVY2W3G8CS&psc=1
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01N37HINI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A28DPMZ26F13GH&psc=1

If Audio Science Review is a source you trust, the A30 really seems to fit what you are looking for. Since the D30 and A30 are made for each other, you wouldn't have to worry about weird synergy issues and it would be a nice neat stack you could, say, leave at work or in the bedroom when you do upgrade later. I think you are wise not to try to upgrade step by step. That's an easy way to spend way too much in this hobby. But, the Topping stack should be a good stopgap while you save up for something else.

The last two links look identical to me. I think they are just dual postings of the same product.

 

[ntbm3]

If you get topping get used, lots of people selling... strange

You have to start somewhere

 

[honeybee123]

What about this? https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07KG84853/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A2UWBVY2W3G8CS&psc=1
As i understood its an amp/dac in one box? Any good compared to topping stack or schiit stack?

 

[ntbm3]

Honestly stop obsessing.

These are entry level options. Find something used and get a taste of what a decent rig is all about. Then when you resell you don’t loose money and can more up to something else.

Also forget about measurements , you can’t Listen to an oscilloscope...

This is a hobby, have fun!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Honestly stop obsessing.

These are entry level options. Find something used and get a taste of what a decent rig is all about. Then when you resell you don’t loose money and can more up to something else.

Also forget about measurements , you can’t Listen to an oscilloscope...

Not that he shouldn't stop obsessing, but I wouldn't go as far as not being able to listen to an oscilloscope.

You can't play a frame time graph either, but it's what will make or break a decision between an RTX 2080 or Vega 64, if not also between a 6core, 12 thread, 4.2ghz Ryzen 2600X that has issues maintaining 4.5ghz vs an 8core, 8thread, 5.0ghz i7-9700K that will only have issues if you didn't at least spend $50 on a CPU cooler.

Not everybody lives in Germany, so not everybody can just go drive in the Nurburgring or any race track for that matter, and a dyno graph doesn't constitute driving...but knowing a car doesn't have any issues like flying off the flugplatz or knowing you get 70% torque at 2000rpm will help buyer confidence about how it will handle backroads or getting past a slow truck before they slam into oncoming traffic.

Knowing the Rockwell hardness on a knife isn't all that either, and you could technically sharpen any knife to a razor edge, but while a $50 random knife from China or Germany and a $170 Japanese knife can do paper thin tomato slices, the harder Japanese knife that rusts easily will chop more onions (given a wood cutting board) before it needs to go back on a whetstone (honing rod in the case of the German knife) or shatter the cladding (in the case of a Chinese Damascus knife with stainless cladding that miraculously sells for $50).

So while I wouldn't obsess between a Meier and a Violectric for example it doesn't mean that these two having performance validated on an oscilloscope is something you can just cast aside. WHile you can't listen to the oscilloscope, it ensures you won't be listening to distortion, it's just that some people actually like distortion, just like with some tube amps.

 

[honeybee123]

Not that he shouldn't stop obsessing, but I wouldn't go as far as not being able to listen to an oscilloscope.

You can't play a frame time graph either, but it's what will make or break a decision between an RTX 2080 or Vega 64, if not also between a 6core, 12 thread, 4.2ghz Ryzen 2600X that has issues maintaining 4.5ghz vs an 8core, 8thread, 5.0ghz i7-9700K that will only have issues if you didn't at least spend $50 on a CPU cooler.

Not everybody lives in Germany, so not everybody can just go drive in the Nurburgring or any race track for that matter, and a dyno graph doesn't constitute driving...but knowing a car doesn't have any issues like flying off the flugplatz or knowing you get 70% torque at 2000rpm will help buyer confidence about how it will handle backroads or getting past a slow truck before they slam into oncoming traffic.

Knowing the Rockwell hardness on a knife isn't all that either, and you could technically sharpen any knife to a razor edge, but while a $50 random knife from China or Germany and a $170 Japanese knife can do paper thin tomato slices, the harder Japanese knife that rusts easily will chop more onions (given a wood cutting board) before it needs to go back on a whetstone (honing rod in the case of the German knife) or shatter the cladding (in the case of a Chinese Damascus knife with stainless cladding that miraculously sells for $50).

So while I wouldn't obsess between a Meier and a Violectric for example it doesn't mean that these two having performance validated on an oscilloscope is something you can just cast aside. WHile you can't listen to the oscilloscope, it ensures you won't be listening to distortion, it's just that some people actually like distortion, just like with some tube amps.

That was a good speech not gonna lie, but yeah you got my point. I don't really want to buy something and then regret it, it's not like I grow my money on trees and I cannot really sell it back for the same or even close to the same price I bought amp/dac for, because my country does not have many audiophiles so to say. And the worst thing is that I cannot just go out and rest them myself before buying, I was only able to find 1 audiophile shop and they only have dac/amp starting from 500 euros and more

 

[ProtegeManiac]

That was a good speech not gonna lie, but yeah you got my point. I don't really want to buy something and then regret it, it's not like I grow my money on trees and I cannot really sell it back for the same or even close to the same price I bought amp/dac for, because my country does not have many audiophiles so to say. And the worst thing is that I cannot just go out and rest them myself before buying, I was only able to find 1 audiophile shop and they only have dac/amp starting from 500 euros and more

You have to at least try as many of the ones they have though. That way there's a reference point as to what you'll buy even if you're set on buying something cheaper or otherwise not available locally.

And even then people at best will just be able to give you their best guess based on what they've listened to so far. There's always a risk that you're spending money on the wrong product vis a vis what you want or overspending on what can give you what you do want.

Still that's why I prefer validated measurements on amps an the availability of comparable graphs on headphones. If an amp has all manner of distortion practically beyond audibility (until you really crank it up, and even then, it won't be so drastic you can't wait to just dump it or return it), then practically all you'll have to do is pick a headphone that has the sound close to what you like and then pick an amp that can power it. Like maybe pick the headphone with the closest measurement to something else but with higher sensitivity or different impedance or doesn't have what makes one headphone that you already tried problematic, and then just get an amp with very very very low distortion and noise levels , and enough power and gain, at that headphone's impedance.

 

[PaganDL]

Hi @honeybee123,

As @ProtegeManiac has stated already, just go with whatever suits your needs, especially if it is available to some degree in your location.

The 'fun' part about this hobby we are all in is most audio gear, especially amps, there is no real rush to get & it is just as easy to change them out if necessary.

Speaking from personal experience over many years, I lean towards pro gear more than straight consumer so there most probably be something which suits you from that area, not to mention pro audio places tend to give better deals on gear than most regular consumer places.

Hope this makes sense.

Hope you have a great day !