[jinp6301]

If I had $200 i would get this

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=261047

 

[Calihan]

Was looking at the 0404 usb and it looks good. Is the sound quality better than the audigy 2 zs? I assume so from all the good reviews the thing gets. If I got one of those, I would just hook up it via usb obviously, then use 1/4" trs cables straight to the speakers? That would be using a balanced system then, correct? Then do I need a split for the subwoofer then? Where would I hook that up?

And how are the 0404 usb/pci different? They both have the 1/4" trs outputs, is the usb different internally than the pci version?

And if I did get the 0404 usb, would I somehow be able to keep my audigy 2 zs inside the computer for when I use EAX for positional audio? And then use the 0404 usb when I wanted to use the speakers? I know I wouldn't be using the speakers if I was using the audigy, I would use headphones for that.

And I suppose for how much I'll be using these speakers/sub, I might as well go for a sub thats balanced, so keep in step with the speakers? Any suggestions? I suppose 200-300 max for budget.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calihan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Was looking at the 0404 usb and it looks good. Is the sound quality better than the audigy 2 zs? I assume so from all the good reviews the thing gets. If I got one of those, I would just hook up it via usb obviously, then use 1/4" trs cables straight to the speakers? That would be using a balanced system then, correct? Then do I need a split for the subwoofer then? Where would I hook that up?

Yes, all correct. The one question is whether or not the 1/8" stereo output on the back has variable volume. If it does, that's good, but you'll still need a Y-cable (1/8" stereo to two RCA) to get the signal to the subwoofer. You could plug the Left RCA into the subwoofer if it only has one input, plug in L/R if it has stereo inputs, or buy some sort of adapter that sums the stereo output into mono so that you'd have information from both channels in one line (though this will be harder to find, if it exists).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calihan And how are the 0404 usb/pci different? They both have the 1/4" trs outputs, is the usb different internally than the pci version?

Yeah, they're different beasts even though the specifications are similar. Most people report that the 0404 USB has better sound quality. Plus, the 0404 PCI can't function as a preamplifier--it doesn't have volume controls, which is where the 0404 USB has a large advantage with studio monitors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calihan And if I did get the 0404 usb, would I somehow be able to keep my audigy 2 zs inside the computer for when I use EAX for positional audio? And then use the 0404 usb when I wanted to use the speakers? I know I wouldn't be using the speakers if I was using the audigy, I would use headphones for that.

I think so... Some people have reported difficulty getting two sets of Creative drivers working properly, but IIRC that was mostly with the newer X-Fi cards. I think it's possible, especially considering the 0404 USB is a USB device that disappears when you unplug it (though it does require driver installation to function properly).

You may find that the 0404 USB sounds so good, enhanced positional audio doesn't make much difference; that's how I felt when I upgraded to a higher-end non-EAX sound card. The 0404 USB has a dedicated headphone amplifier, too, so your headphones may sound significantly better through it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calihan And I suppose for how much I'll be using these speakers/sub, I might as well go for a sub thats balanced, so keep in step with the speakers? Any suggestions? I suppose 200-300 max for budget.

There aren't many active studio subwoofers in this price range unfortunately... Here are a few different options: 1, 2. Of those, the only one I've heard is the KRK RP-10S. For the price, it's a very decent subwoofer.

 

[mojo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most people who buy active monitors also go with a studio subwoofer, because they tend to have pass-through capability (signal input and output), which helps to keep the volume equal between the subwoofer and speakers.

Sorry if I'm being a bit thick but presumably this is only any good if you have something like the EMU 0404 USB which has a volume control on it. For those of us with internal sound cards and only digital volume control, we need monitors more like the Swans with front volume controls and no sub...?

It's a shame the Swans are not available in the UK. You can get t amps from eBay but finding good speakers, powered monitors or otherwise at reasonable prices is a nightmare.

I am a bit like the OP. I want something not too expensive for listening, mainly as BGM. For serious listening I have 'phones. But having become used to high end sound all the multimedia rubbish that seems to be the only option in my price range in the UK doesn't cut it.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry if I'm being a bit thick but presumably this is only any good if you have something like the EMU 0404 USB which has a volume control on it. For those of us with internal sound cards and only digital volume control, we need monitors more like the Swans with front volume controls and no sub...?

True... I end up recommending the 0404 USB all the time just because it has a lot of unique features for the price. If you want the best gain staging with an internal sound card, you could use a balanced passive attenuator, but finding a cheap one that won't affect sound quality is very difficult. Another alternative is buying a small mixer, like a Mackie 1202. The older versions of these sell often for less than $100 USD on eBay.

Or, you could just use the master volume slider in the Windows Mixer. It can be a little dangerous, since some applications like to ramp up the volume to 100%, but if you're using active monitors, many of them have an attenuator knob that you can use to set the maximum output to prevent blowing your ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo I am a bit like the OP. I want something not too expensive for listening, mainly as BGM. For serious listening I have 'phones. But having become used to high end sound all the multimedia rubbish that seems to be the only option in my price range in the UK doesn't cut it.

What about a pair of 2.1 computer speakers like the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1? These are pretty much the best budget 2.1 set available at the moment. If you don't mind buying used, look for Boston Acoustics models on eBay. Specifically these models: Media Theater, BA7800, BA7900.

 

[mojo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or, you could just use the master volume slider in the Windows Mixer. It can be a little dangerous, since some applications like to ramp up the volume to 100%, but if you're using active monitors, many of them have an attenuator knob that you can use to set the maximum output to prevent blowing your ears.

Doesn't the master volume knob use digital volume attenuation though? Or does it depend on the sound card and drivers etc?

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif What about a pair of 2.1 computer speakers like the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1? These are pretty much the best budget 2.1 set available at the moment. If you don't mind buying used, look for Boston Acoustics models on eBay. Specifically these models: Media Theater, BA7800, BA7900.

I would like some. I currently have Yamahas which are okay for games or video but not much cop for music.

Do these look like the sort of thing you would recommend?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Boston-Acousti...QQcmdZViewItem

As for the Klipsch, I have heard that the new weird looking ones are not up to much. Do you mean the older boxy ones?

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do these look like the sort of thing you would recommend? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Boston-Acousti...QQcmdZViewItem As for the Klipsch, I have heard that the new weird looking ones are not up to much. Do you mean the older boxy ones?

I can't imagine the Bostons to be anything but mediocre to be honest

The newer "weird looking" Klipschs have pretty uninspiring reviews. They're apparently not as good as the original ProMedia 2.1s. I'm under the impression that the ProMedia 2.1 system is the very best there is, but unfortunately couldn't track a set down in the UK.

I've decided to keep the Z 2300 despite its downfalls. They're just about bearable for music and more than acceptable for general multimedia uses. Computer speakers will always have lackluster music performance. I'm guessing powered monitors is the only way forward until one has the means to purchase a proper pre/poweramp-passive speaker rig. In the end, it depends on your personal expectations. I didn't expect much from the Z 2300 and despite paying more than US retail for them (me being UK-based), I don't think I could've done much better...

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Doesn't the master volume knob use digital volume attenuation though? Or does it depend on the sound card and drivers etc?

All software attenuation is digital, so yes, it's digital, but from the comprehensive testing done by Benchmark, the master volume slider has the least affect on the sound compared with most programs. For this reason, your player (ex. Foobar) should be set to unity gain (in Foobar, 0.0 dB, other players, 100%, etc.).

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo Do these look like the sort of thing you would recommend? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Boston-Acousti...QQcmdZViewItem

If you can get them in good condition for a good price, a pair of Bostons would be worth a shot. I own the regular Media Theater set without the digital input, which cost something like $250 back in 1997. The set in that auction looks a little abused; one of the satellite stands has been crunched, so it's sitting at the wrong angle--you may want to pass on that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't imagine the Bostons to be anything but mediocre to be honest

Aww... I think that Boston's speakers are far better than mediocre, especially for computer speakers. Of course, it depends which Boston set we're talking about, since the miniature ones can't deliver the performance of the regular lines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo As for the Klipsch, I have heard that the new weird looking ones are not up to much. Do you mean the older boxy ones?

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder The newer "weird looking" Klipschs have pretty uninspiring reviews. They're apparently not as good as the original ProMedia 2.1s. I'm under the impression that the ProMedia 2.1 system is the very best there is, but unfortunately couldn't track a set down in the UK.

I hadn't heard that there was a new model... I thought that this was the only one:

Can you point me to the new ones?

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder I'm guessing powered monitors is the only way forward until one has the means to purchase a proper pre/poweramp-passive speaker rig.

Some people start on the active/balanced path and never return. Accuracy is much easier to achieve when the speaker manufacturer designs and includes the power amplifier. The less possible configurations, the better; this is why Apple doesn't allow regular people to assemble their own OSX-running computers.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif Aww... I think that Boston's speakers are far better than mediocre, especially for computer speakers. Of course, it depends which Boston set we're talking about, since the miniature ones can't deliver the performance of the regular lines.

Maybe I was a bit harsh

(I was referring to the set in the eBay auction, not Boston speakers in general) I've only heard a couple pairs of Boston computer sets before and they weren't that great. Mind you, none of them are ever bad sounding, just not particularly mind-blowing either

Quote:

I hadn't heard that there was a new model... I thought that this was the only one: Can you point me to the new ones?

http://www.klipsch.com/products/deta...gmx-a-2-1.aspx

Quote:

Some people start on the active/balanced path and never return. Accuracy is much easier to achieve when the speaker manufacturer designs and includes the power amplifier. The less possible configurations, the better; this is why Apple doesn't allow regular people to assemble their own OSX-running computers.

There is some truth in this, but I can't believe a set of active/balanced monitors sounding better (from an audiophile's perspective, not a mastering engineer) than a well amped set of ProAc monitors or Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors

The simplicity of just having to provide a line input is very convenient though: no playing with cables, different pre/power/int amp combinations, etc.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Ah, I've seen those before, but they're the GMX A model... According to Klipsch's page, they've been made since 2003. Have the original ProMedias finally been discontinued? According to the specs, the older set seems to have more power going to the satellites (14 wpc in GMX vs. 55 wpc in regular) and the subwoofer has the same rating in both... So I'd imagine the older ones might sound better. They certainly have nicer-looking enclosures.

Quote:

There is some truth in this, but I can't believe a set of active/balanced monitors sounding better (from an audiophile's perspective, not a mastering engineer) than a well amped set of ProAc monitors or Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors The simplicity of just having to provide a line input is very convenient though: no playing with cables, different pre/power/int amp combinations, etc.

Didn't I see in another thread that you had a room with Chord and Esoteric gear going into some JMlab Diva Utopia Bes? I'd probably be sold on passive gear if I had access to that rig.

As you say, it depends on your goal: musicality or accuracy. The former is probably easier to achieve when you can swap out every component to suit your tastes. Still, not all active speakers are neutral or accurate; some are voiced for a more pleasant listening experience (ex. Dynaudio BM15A). Maybe there's a balanced speaker out there for you.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah, I've seen those before, but they're the GMX A model... According to Klipsch's page, they've been made since 2003. Have the original ProMedias finally been discontinued? According to the specs, the older set seems to have more power going to the satellites (14 wpc in GMX vs. 55 wpc in regular) and the subwoofer has the same rating in both... So I'd imagine the older ones might sound better. They certainly have nicer-looking enclosures.

No, I don't think the original ProMedias have been discontinued, just that I can't find them in the UK. The Klipsch distributor probably thinks that the iPod generation is more interested in a fancy-looking GMX A model.

That said, the GMX A-2.1 probably sounds better than the Logitech I bought...

Quote:

Didn't I see in another thread that you had a room with Chord and Esoteric gear going into some JMlab Diva Utopia Bes? I'd probably be sold on passive gear if I had access to that rig.

Those are my dad's and they're in Hong Kong. I study in Scotland. He never ever uses them so I basically get to go wild with 'em whenever I'm back home. Anyhow, I chose the components but it's still not fully set up. The positions of the speakers still need to be tweaked. They sure sound better than my Logitechs even though they don't have a subwoofer *gasp*

It's a shame my parents refuse to buy a proper stereo for me on the grounds that I am supposed to work, not enjoy life

Fair enough...

Quote:

As you say, it depends on your goal: musicality or accuracy. The former is probably easier to achieve when you can swap out every component to suit your tastes. Still, not all active speakers are neutral or accurate; some are voiced for a more pleasant listening experience (ex. Dynaudio BM15A). Maybe there's a balanced speaker out there for you.

Yes. I'm thinking on the lines of the Meridian DSP series?

I have listened to the DSP5000s, but IMO, a pre/power+passive combo sounded better. I also got a chance to hear the DSP8000s from a 808i, but hey, that's pretty darn expensive gear. It's meant to sound good! Beyond that, I haven't had much experience with active speakers apart from the powered woofers in Martin Logans... They're just not that popular in the audiophile crowd

, probably due to the "lock-in" feeling. By that I mean locked into a single brand.





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I've kinda given up on the Logitechs for classical music. The midrange timbre is artificial to say the least and no amount of EQ will fix it. Now I'm listening to Power of Equality - Red Hot Chili Peppers and the bass is there, but it lags behind. Again, the hollow midrange isn't doing any good. The highs also lack energy, sparkle and extension. Last night's Star War's session was pretty good though and so was watching Top Gear. I really wonder what the THX badge means... Did George Lucas really approve of these?

 

[mojo]

This has to be the most fustrating thread ever. Headphones and headphone amps you can get most brands of here, or have them imported easily. When it comes to speakers, passive or active monitors it seems like there is almost no choice in the UK except Logitec/Altec Lansing/Creative multimeida pap or cheap and uninspiring passives. Importing is obviously difficult.

Us brits read all these threads about $50 super sounding speakers from Best Buy or the vast array of monitors available. Why is it the main goal of British retailers seems to be to limit your choice as much as possible?

 

[milkpowder]

LOL! Importing is always an option, but one would have to expect to pay about 2 times the US retail price due to expensive shipping costs, import duties and sales tax. Even bloody KSC75s cost 10 quid here! They're 10 dollars in the States! I'm going to blame Gordon Brown

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Us brits read all these threads about $50 super sounding speakers from Best Buy or the vast array of monitors available. Why is it the main goal of British retailers seems to be to limit your choice as much as possible?

Hey, you guys have Arcam, Harbeth, NAD, Naim, and Rega... We have to import that stuff.

The Insignia speakers you hinted about really aren't great, and their price has been raised to around $79 USD, which means that they aren't even cheap anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL! Importing is always an option, but one would have to expect to pay about 2 times the US retail price due to expensive shipping costs, import duties and sales tax. Even bloody KSC75s cost 10 quid here! They're 10 dollars in the States! I'm going to blame Gordon Brown

The cheapest price for the KSC75s here is around $18, and most places sell them for the $25 MSRP, so £10 isn't such a bad deal.

My theory is that since the UK is geographically the furthest area from Japan/Asia, and because most of the gear comes from there, it takes more time and money to ship. Still, it's strange that the UK branches of worldwide companies continue to suffer from limited or lagging product distribution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've kinda given up on the Logitechs for classical music...I really wonder what the THX badge means... Did George Lucas really approve of these?

Yes! They're approved to hit the reference level of 105 dB without "breaking, distorting, buzzing, rattling or any other distracting effects." Which says nothing about their sound quality or accuracy, of course.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, you guys have Arcam, Harbeth, NAD, Naim, and Rega... We have to import that stuff.

And it amazes me how it imported UK stuff sells for less than it does in the originating country (see below)

Quote:

My theory is that since the UK is geographically the furthest area from Japan/Asia, and because most of the gear comes from there, it takes more time and money to ship. Still, it's strange that the UK branches of worldwide companies continue to suffer from limited or lagging product distribution.

How do you explain UK stuff shipped and sold in Asian countries for less than UK prices?!?! Example: My parents got me a Cambridge Audio 740c in Hong Kong for £408. Retail price in the UK is £499. Both run on 240V so they're entirely identical. How ridiculous is that?!

Quote:

Yes! They're approved to hit the reference level of 105 dB without "breaking, distorting, buzzing, rattling or any other distracting effects." Which says nothing about their sound quality or accuracy, of course.

That's bloody useful isn't it. I'm sure I'll be blasting them at 105dB all day long

At these volumes, I'd be deaf sooner than I can pick out the 10% THD.