Typical “Appleism” - they have a great app, impressive catalogue (inc. Apple Classical), everything losless plus some HD and they are wasting it because of Airplay 2 nonsense. Obviously it bothers insignificant amount of their users, I’m sure they have everything calculated.
Fingers crossed for a new, post-MQA Tidal or Spotify HiFi, one of them would be a game changer for me as Qobuz is not available in my country.
Typical “Appleism” - they have a great app, impressive catalogue (inc. Apple Classical), everything losless plus some HD and they are wasting it because of Airplay 2 nonsense. Obviously it bothers insignificant amount of their users, I’m sure they have everything calculated.
Fingers crossed for a new, post-MQA Tidal or Spotify HiFi, one of them would be a game changer for me as Qobuz is not available in my country.
Well Tidal is already in the process of phasing out MQA. If subscribe to Max, it will choose hires over MQA and not even offer MQA as option if both available. Current issue is Tidal Connect, Naim’s native app, all 3rd party apps, and roon still need updates to support this. Hopefully by end of year. Spotify is rumored to have at least lossless by Oct but Spotify hasn’t kept its word in the past, so wouldn’t hold out hope. And no word from Apple if going to ever make Apple Music lossless over Airplay 2 or come up with some other handoff method. Still lossy in ios17 beta.
According to this article from March 2023 on the What HiFi website(see below), using Airplay 2 will change the music file in Apple music from lossless to lossy. Apple was said to be working to fix the problem. Has this been fixed yet?
As we have noted in our lossless audio explainer, the AirPlay 2 protocol supports lossless music (audio up to 24-bit/48kHz, in fact) so those with music files stored on their iOS device can send it over AirPlay to another device losslessly. However, the news isn't so good with regards to using AirPlay 2 to send lossless Apple Music streams. Apple Music’s Lossless streams supposedly convert from ALAC (Apple’s lossless codec) into AAC (Apple’s lossy codec) at a pretty lowly 256kbps when transmitted over AirPlay – and therefore not losslessly.
In other words, yes, AirPlay 2 does support lossless audio, but perhaps not for the use case you might want it to.
Apple is apparently working on an update to enable lossless over AirPlay (we are reaching out to Apple to confirm), so fingers crossed that this transpires and thus Apple’s lossless offering becomes validated.
The crazy thing is way back in 2003, so 20 years ago, I was using iTunes with lossless ALAC files losslessly streaming to an AirPort Express. The fact that 20 years later, Apple can’t make that happen with their Apple Music program is crazy. At the very least allow the non-hires files to be lossless.
No, it’s Apple Music using AirPlay 2 that’s the issue. If you happen to have a streamer can can do only AirPlay 1, then you can get cd quality. Your AirPort Express doesn’t fix this. Has nothing to do with non Apple devices. Apple limited it to 256k acc over Airplay 2 to have better connectivity vs quality. And especially since it can do mult room. If you are hearing a difference between the Airport Export vs Naim HE with Apple Music, just your imagination. Also losing streaming functionality.
I very seldom use that route. The AE main purpose is a AP for my RooExtend Pi. The optical out to Naim was a bonus. I honestly don't use it. So, if you can find a gen 1 AE, you're good. Those also were tested and measured good out of the optical as well.
I mostly divested myself from the Apple ecosystem. I don't use airplay often since I use Roon and Qobuz. It sounds like if you avoid airplay 2, you're getting lossless up to CD quality. Shairport allows you to avoid airplay 2 and can be installed on a Pi based system. If I airplay, it's mostly to my shairport streamer.
The simple advice is don't get a HE if you are soley streaming apple music.
I very seldom use that route. The AE main purpose is a AP for my RooExtend Pi. The optical out to Naim was a bonus. I honestly don't use it. So, if you can find a gen 1 AE, you're good. Those also were tested and measured good out of the optical as well.
I mostly divested myself from the Apple ecosystem. I don't use airplay often since I use Roon and Qobuz. It sounds like if you avoid airplay 2, you're getting lossless up to CD quality. Shairport allows you to avoid airplay 2 and can be installed on a Pi based system. If I airplay, it's mostly to my shairport streamer.
The simple advice is don't get a HE if you are soley streaming apple music.
So on my Focal Arche setup I use a Stack Audio Link II, which is Pi based. And yes, the Shairport setup would allow lossless cd quality Apple Music. The issue is if the wifi isn’t the greatest I can get dropouts. Just using roon is much more reliable on that setup.
But I do agree that if you plan to use Apple Music and want lossless, then currently the Naim HE is probably not the right system since you basically have to bypass the internal streamer. However, I did test it out again and it’s actually sound pretty good over Airplay 2, especially for casual listening. It’s just if play the same track thru roon that will notice slight improvements but even then very subtle. But nice thing is on iOS17 is that it remembers your AirPlay connection when switching back to Apple Music. So much more seamless. And that article did say that Apple was working on a fix but it’s been a year and half and 2 iOS later and still lossy, so not so sure.
So on my Focal Arche setup I use a Stack Audio Link II, which is Pi based. And yes, the Shairport setup would allow lossless cd quality Apple Music. The issue is if the wifi isn’t the greatest I can get dropouts. Just using roon is much more reliable on that setup.
But I do agree that if you plan to use Apple Music and want lossless, then currently the Naim HE is probably not the right system since you basically have to bypass the internal streamer. However, I did test it out again and it’s actually sound pretty good over Airplay 2, especially for casual listening. It’s just if play the same track thru roon that will notice slight improvements but even then very subtle. But nice thing is on iOS17 is that it remembers your AirPlay connection when switching back to Apple Music. So much more seamless. And that article did say that Apple was working on a fix but it’s been a year and half and 2 iOS later and still lossy, so not so sure.
Don't hold your breath. Lossless audio streaming does nothing to improve the apple bottom line.
I have no issues with the SoTM neo 200 with Shairpoint dropouts. I'm using a $25 wifi adapter. That's the issue with the non apple options--variable usability issues. My KEF LS50II work terribly using RAAT, but flawlessly with Airplay with Roon. And no, it’s not due to HiRes vs CD quality. Even when I limit RAAT to 16/44, it's still buggy. Same with the MuSo and all my other streaming devices, Airplay always works.
The Naim HE is the first streamer I've used that just works. No hassles.
I’m literally that guy who bought the Naim this past week, not connecting the dots with Apple Music and the Naim being limited by AirPlay 2.
I will say it still sounds great, but I’ll absolutely be re-enabling my Tidal account to make the most of this unit. If Apple get their act together, then I’d happily return as I don’t mind AM at all and I’ll be paying for it regardless for the other Apple ecosystem features for my family.
I may also finally look into Roon with Tidal. I’ve never paid too much attention to Roon, but seeing as the Naim is a roon endpoint, it could make the most sense if using the Naim to its fullest is my goal.
Don't hold your breath. Lossless audio streaming does nothing to improve the apple bottom line.
I have no issues with the SoTM neo 200 with Shairpoint dropouts. I'm using a $25 wifi adapter. That's the issue with the non apple options--variable usability issues. My KEF LS50II work terribly using RAAT, but flawlessly with Airplay with Roon. And no, it’s not due to HiRes vs CD quality. Even when I limit RAAT to 16/44, it's still buggy. Same with the MuSo and all my other streaming devices, Airplay always works.
The Naim HE is the first streamer I've used that just works. No hassles.
I believe the trick to the Naim HE is the entire sides of the unit are actually an antenna and a cooling system. Just a better implementation of wifi antenna.
I still hold out a little breath for Apple because hires also did nothing for their bottom line. Maybe it took away Spotify’s thunder when they announced lossless is all. And if don’t use roon, I still think Spotify would probably be the way to go if they actually do come out with lossless. Supposedly Spotify Connect was already updated to handle lossless like 2 years ago. Just waiting on Spotify to release it is all. But at the moment I’m pretty happy with roon and Qobuz. Qobuz library has improved greatly over last few years but still needs a little work.
I’m literally that guy who bought the Naim this past week, not connecting the dots with Apple Music and the Naim being limited by AirPlay 2.
I will say it still sounds great, but I’ll absolutely be re-enabling my Tidal account to make the most of this unit. If Apple get their act together, then I’d happily return as I don’t mind AM at all and I’ll be paying for it regardless for the other Apple ecosystem features for my family.
I may also finally look into Roon with Tidal. I’ve never paid too much attention to Roon, but seeing as the Naim is a roon endpoint, it could make the most sense if using the Naim to its fullest is my goal.
Just keep in mind Tidal is a little wonky at the moment. Hires files don’t work unless phone is hooked up directly to the unit like Apple Music. They haven’t sent out the code for devices with Tidal Connect to receive the hires stream yet so still a weird mix of MQA. And they haven’t sent roon update to receive Max setting either. Same goes for the Naim app. But you may be getting cd lossless and MQA, which is better than 256k aac. Best setup at the moment is Qobuz with roon for the Naim.
Definitely prefer roon over tidal. Too much marketing jazz - from MQA to spatial audio with tidal.
Roon allows ease or use. You can use your phone / laptop etc as your controller. Ergonomically less clunky and much better interface than the Naim app. Pricey though!
Definitely prefer roon over tidal. Too much marketing jazz - from MQA to spatial audio with tidal.
Roon allows ease or use. You can use your phone / laptop etc as your controller. Ergonomically less clunky and much better interface than the Naim app. Pricey though!
The Naim app is a little more responsive lately but just a pain compared to roon. I was lucky and got roon lifetime about 6 years ago on a Black Friday special for $200 off their original $500 price. Even for $300 I felt is was too expensive at the time but it’s improved nicely over the years. I still think their mobile software can use a full overhaul, similar to how their roon ARC software works but be full featured.
I don't mind other apps like Qobuz etc but they're just no where near as good as Roon in terms of seamless integration between multiple subscription services and your own media. This year the annual subscription jumped up a bit and as they give you 30 days to cancel or upgrade to lifetime after they take the payment, I decided to go lifetime.
I also really like Roon Arc. Now I can access my Roon Playlists and media stored on my Roon Nucleus when I'm away from home with my phone or CarPlay
For the roon core, you can technically just load that on a pc or Mac you already use. You don’t have to have a separate machine for it. I put together an intel roc core for about $400 a few years ago. I was worried about setting it up but wasn’t too bad. Just store that little box next to router in a closet. Really only issue when use to run on a Mac is would have stuttering if my wife was doing photoshop at same time. Otherwise even on Mac it ran great.
They’ve also now added a monthly plan. That seems pricey but don’t dont have to pay full year at once. Crazy how much lifetime is now. So $300 was a steal.
I’ve been begging for a roon mobile app for years and finally when it came out I hardly need it because I’m 100% remote for work now. And then when on vacation there was an update and couldn’t even use until I returned.
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