Nad C320BEE Headphone Output Question

[Jimmysilvers]

Hello All

This is my first post to head-fi.
I have a Nad C320BEE amp and I am using the headphone output on that to drive my Grado SR60s. The question is, would I get any improvement in sound quality if a got a Headphone amp. Volume is not an issue, it is just the Nad sounds a little woolly for my liking.

If so, any suggestions ?

I am using a Nad T533 dvd audio player as the source, I am currently looking to change it to a dedicated cd player or get a DAC.

As an indication of the level of sound I am used to, my old system I had before moving to Canada (From the UK) was a Rega Planet 2000 CD, Marantz PM7200 (Class A) amp and Epos ELS3 speakers.

Any suggestions would be great

Cheers

 

[cfo]

Before adding a headphone amp, I would suggest you try replacing the preamp/amp jumpers on the back of the amp with a pair of good interconnects or jumper cables made for that purpose.

 

[Asmo]

I would either get amp more suited for the grados, the NAD pairs with sennheisers very very well. If you arn't interested in buying a different pair of headphones, I would start looking around at small amps, you don't need anything high end for the grado 60s.

I replaced my jumpers on my NAD with the Tara Labs RSC Link, worth it.

 

[JefferyK]

I have been told by audio dealers that the NAD 320BEE (which I own) headphone jack and related circuitry are excellent. Very quiet with plenty of power.

I believe the general rule of thumb is that the headphone jack's output impedance should be lower than the headphone's impedance. The BEE's headphone jack output impedance is high, something like 220 ohms. As a result, the bass was pretty sloppy with my old SR-80s (32 ohms). Sounds like you are getting something similar. On the other hand, the BEE seems to work very well with the higher-end Sennheisers. I have a pair of HD-580s (300 ohms) now, and the BEE powers them just fine.

So, how attached are you to your Grados? If you want to keep them, you'll probably have to get a headphone amp that is a better match for them than the BEE. But you might consider getting a pair of higher-impedance headphones instead.

Jeffery

P.S. Replacing the stock jumpers on the back of the BEE with jumper cables improved the sound for me---tighter bass and clearer sound overall, nothing huge but audible nonetheless---so you might want to look into doing that. I bought a pair from Tara Labs for around $30. It was worth it to me.

 

[Jimmysilvers]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I was thinking about upgrading the jumpers as it happens. So I will look into that.

I am quite attached to the Grados, so if I did look into getting an headphone amp, any suggestions on models that are grado friendly ?

 

[dave-the-rave]

I've got a NAD 320BEE because I've got a lot of sources (turntable, 5-CD changer, 'high end' single CD player, audio CD recorder) and because speaker listening is low priority.

I upgraded the jumpers to Audioquest Pythons and I've been using the NAD headphone output as I am presently between amps. The bottom line— get a headphone amp. I'm using Sennheiser HD-650 with Cardas cables, and while it doesn't sound 'bad' to the ear, I can't listen for more than 10 minutes because it is so inferior to the Microzotl and Earmax Pro I used to have; even my first headphone amp, a Creek OBH-11 was better.

I don't care for Grado's myself, but if you spend any time listening to headphones, get a headphone amp— it's not about volume, it's about sound quality, and the difference is significant. Best of luck.

 

[Asmo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave-the-rave I've got a NAD 320BEE because I've got a lot of sources (turntable, 5-CD changer, 'high end' single CD player, audio CD recorder) and because speaker listening is low priority. I upgraded the jumpers to Audioquest Pythons and I've been using the NAD headphone output as I am presently between amps. The bottom line— get a headphone amp. I'm using Sennheiser HD-650 with Cardas cables, and while it doesn't sound 'bad' to the ear, I can't listen for more than 10 minutes because it is so inferior to the Microzotl and Earmax Pro I used to have; even my first headphone amp, a Creek OBH-11 was better. I don't care for Grado's myself, but if you spend any time listening to headphones, get a headphone amp— it's not about volume, it's about sound quality, and the difference is significant. Best of luck.

I compared my NAD C320BEE directly against a Rega Ear extensively, and found them to be very simliiar in sound, I cannot imagine a OBH-11 sounding as good, I do however conceed that I'm sure there are many better headphone amps, but the NAD is just as good as any $200~ headphone amp.

 

[dave-the-rave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asmo I compared my NAD C320BEE directly against a Rega Ear extensively, and found them to be very simliiar in sound, I cannot imagine a OBH-11 sounding as good, I do however conceed that I'm sure there are many better headphone amps, but the NAD is just as good as any $200~ headphone amp.

I'm not interested in starting a flame war here. However...

I think it's irresponsible to definitively conclude, based on hearing only the Rega, that the NAD is just as good as any $200 headphone amp. (And wouldn't it be generous of NAD to include the equivalent of a $200 headphone amp in their $400 integrated amp?)

Also, I'm not sure whether you can't imagine the Creek sounding as good as the Rega or as good as the NAD, but in either case, I don't know why Jimmysilvers should make a decision based on your imagination.

Finally, Asmo, I assume that's either a soundcard or mp3 player as your source. It's possible that a higher quality source will be more revealing of differences downstream.

 

[amartignano]

I think that the improvement in sound quality with an headphone dedicated amp vs "normal outputs" depends much on the headphone. I can say that the HD650 is very critical and improves a lot with a dedicated amp. I had the Grado SR-60 but at that time I don't have the Rudistor amp... But I think that the sound will improve with a dedicated amp, but not as the HD650 improves. I'm saying this by intuition, but with basis

... the major difference I've heard with the Rp3 vs" normal outputs" was in the highs extension and clarity and in the headstage, two parameters in which the Grado Sr-60 is good for the price, but they have a somewhat "velour" high (very pleasant to listen to, to say the truth) and a flatter headstage which probably can hide a little the amp improvements. Probably... maybe not.

Andrea

 

[Nak Man]

Hi Dave, really like your avatar - yes fan here ! =)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave-the-rave (And wouldn't it be generous of NAD to include the equivalent of a $200 headphone amp in their $400 integrated amp?)

Maybe this is only an extreme example, but considering the design of $400 grado RA-1 amp is very similar to the head amp section inside my $600 adcom 555ii preamp ... I wouldn't say that adcom was the one being generous - instead I would really question the reasoning of $400 price.

Peace.

 

[amartignano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nak Man Hi Dave, really like your avatar - yes fan here ! =)

Me to! YES RULEZ!!!

 

[Nak Man]

Again, not wanting to start flame war here ... but this is quoted from headroom site regarding its $200 total airhead:

Quote:

The op-amps in the unit were very carefully chosen (by ear) for the most musical performance. We feel the Total AirHead performs in the upper-mid-fi category (at the level of Adcom, NAD, or Sony ES). Bottom line: the Total AirHead is the perfect complement for any listener wishing to get the most out of their headphones, both portably and at home, without spending the big bucks for audiophile performance.

So ... headroom (not me =) suggested that sound quality improvement is always possible ... at the expense of big bucks. With the recent thread of using high impedance phones with high impedance output jacks, me thinks that your 32 ohms Grado need a better match. Here's Arcam keyperson explained why Grado in particular don't sound optimal coming from his amp phones jacks. Maybe you want to try this simple attenuator pad before plunging serious amp money to get audiophile performance.

 

[Jimmysilvers]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I will look into modifying the 320BEE before going with the headphone amp route.

Has anyone got any suggestion of good headphone amps if I go that route.

Cheers

James

 

[amartignano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmysilvers ...suggestion of good headphone amps ...

I vote for the Rudistor Rp3 (also because it's the only headphone amp I've ever had...

). With the HD650 the difference in the sound between the Rudi and the "normal outputs" is clearly audible and make the music more natural and enjoyable to listen to.

Andrea

 

[Asmo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave-the-rave I'm not interested in starting a flame war here. However... I think it's irresponsible to definitively conclude, based on hearing only the Rega, that the NAD is just as good as any $200 headphone amp. (And wouldn't it be generous of NAD to include the equivalent of a $200 headphone amp in their $400 integrated amp?) Also, I'm not sure whether you can't imagine the Creek sounding as good as the Rega or as good as the NAD, but in either case, I don't know why Jimmysilvers should make a decision based on your imagination. Finally, Asmo, I assume that's either a soundcard or mp3 player as your source. It's possible that a higher quality source will be more revealing of differences downstream.

I have tried a few other headphone amps, cmoys/meta42 designs, and the Rega Ear, I figured the EAR was the best of the bunch I found the the NAD was comparable. Others have posted simliar opinions on these forums.

You can read my signature to see what my source is, I use a E-MU 1212m soundcard, which is no slouch of a source, I, and _many_ people here have prefered the E-MU and other soundcards to some great stand alone sources, (I have personally compared it to the NAD c542 & 521BEE as well as a few other CDPs of lesser quality), I do not need to list a long list of reviews/comparissoons of today's souncards vs CDPs you can search for that yourself.