[Danneq]

Concerning apparent headphone burn in, I'm on the fence but leaning towards physcoacoustics (and actually agreeing with xnor! 

)
 
Out of all the headphones I have owned, admittedly not top tier, only my AKG K420 have appeared to change their sound signature. At first the treble was overwhelming with my Cowon S9, so much that I could not use them together. After 40 or so hours of using them with my other DAP:s they worked much better together with the S9. However the headphones might not have changed themselves, but instead my ears have gotten used to them. Okay, tweaking the EQ might have helped a bit too...
My not very scientific (nor 100% serious) conclusion is that EQ changes the sound of headphones more than apparent burn in.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

 
There are 4 possible modalities as I see it:
 
1-Discuss burn-in.  Is it real?  If so, to what degree?  Etc.
2-Discuss psychoacoustics.  Does hearing change?  Does mental memory change?  Variables involved?  Etc.
3-Discuss psychoacoustics being misrepresented or wrongly attributed to burn-in.  Semantics, logic, blah, blah.
4-Discuss psychoacoustics is burn-in.  2 = 1.
 
The argument made by the OP and many burn-in 'critics' as I see it is argument #4.  This argument is a logical fallacy and non-sequitur leading to pretty much the muddled mess I surmised it would be.  
 
As for my personal experience I can say for a fact burn-in is real.  I never put headphones on long enough during burn-in for psychoacoustics to take hold.  It takes me less than 20-30 secs to pick a song on my source, press play and know if the treble is harsher or smoother than yesterday, the bass is tighter or looser than yesterday, if a snare drum sounds as plasticky today as it did yesterday.  These are changes I have heard and experienced from burn-in not psychoacoustics.  I simply don't allow enough time for my ears or brain to adjust to the sound.  Honestly I haven't yet ever found myself adjusting and learning to like treble harshness, flabby bass or plastic drums.  So I say go pound sand on that argument.  Consistently saying yeah my phones are sounding better to me all the time w/o frame of reference is definitely psychoacoustics.  Burn-in can result in a phone sounding better, worse or the same.  Depends on the phone.  All burn-in does is condition the phone to achieve its true natural state for better or worse and reduce risk to potential driver damage.  That's it, nothing less nothing more.  If you haven't experienced the burn-in phenomena yourself then fine.  I can say of all the phones in my signature I can say for a fact to have noticed sonic change w/ at least 5 of them.  Most of the rest I noticed little if any difference at all.
 
Hope this helps some of you.  I have nothing left to say on the matter.  Thank goodness.
 

I don't see where the OP is confusing terminologies perse.  The OP is proposing that way too much credit is being given to burn in as the reason for headphones sounding different with time as you use them.  He proposes giving all the credit to psychoacoustics.  IOW's, he has been discussing option 3.
 
BTW, psychoacoustic adaptation carries over from listening session to listening session.  You don't reset your brain, so to speak after a night's sleep and wake up psychoacoustically neutral.  Additionally, there are limits to what we are each willing to or can adapt to in terms of bass and treble and volume.  So yes, treble or bass beyond a certain level, I'll never grow to appreciate.  
 
Taking two or more contrasting headphones and listening to each for 2-3 full weeks at a time and then switching to another can be quite instructive where psychoacoustics are concerned.  In my case, I've been alternating between the Ed8's, the HD800's and the HD650's.
 
While I'll not say that burn-in doesn't occur, I do support the opinion that it doesn't contribute significantly to the changes one perceives in headphones as they use them over time.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 
As for the last paragraph Anaxilus, how can you be so sure? How do you know how long you have to listen for psychoacoustics to take hold? (lol?)
 

How do you know your life is real and not just a dream?  So you believe psychoacoustics adjusts for sibilance and bass bloat huh.  Right. (lol?)
 
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Lol, their opinions are not very humble, IMHO

My unhumble opinion is I don't give a crap.  
 
Quote:

My not very scientific (nor 100% serious) conclusion is that EQ changes the sound of headphones more than apparent burn in.

This is brilliance.  Pretty much indicative and expected of this thread topic.
 
I leave you humble folk to continue this teachable moment.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

 
Quote:

I leave you humble folk to continue this teachable moment.

Thanks.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

My unhumble opinion is I don't give a crap.    
I leave you humble folk to continue this teachable moment.

Thank you ... thank you!!

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Anaxilus. Again, for clarification. My theory is that people mistake physcoacoustics for burn in. Your non 3 on the list and not non 4.

 
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Here is why I think that the audiophile idea of headphone burn in, as in it is attributable to the headphone is nonsense
 

I guess I somehow misinterpreted you first statement?  It seemed inline w/ other comments you have made in the past.  #3 it is then.  So you believe headphone burn-in does exist then?  

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

Burn-in doesn't negate psychoacoustics and psychoacoustics does not negate burn-in.
 
-snip-
 
I'm finished w/ these silly discussions.

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I have nothing left to say on the matter.  Thank goodness.

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
My unhumble opinion is I don't give a crap.
 
-snip-
 
I leave you humble folk to continue this teachable moment.

 
Quote:

I guess I somehow misinterpreted you first statement?  It seemed inline w/ other comments you have made in the past.  #3 it is then.  So you believe headphone burn-in does exist then?  

lmao

 

[vhbaske]

This seems like two armies fighting one against the other with all their weapons for a  half millimeter terrain.  Myself , have never heard any difference in sound in my headphones. The ones that sounds bad from the first time continue as such forever.

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

This seems like two armies fighting one against the other with all their weapons for a  half millimeter terrain.

I agree, if you look at the substance of this discussion there is much more consensus than actual debate on this topic. I don't really see what all the fuss is about!

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

This seems like two armies fighting one against the other with all their weapons for a  half millimeter terrain.  Myself , have never heard any difference in sound in my headphones. The ones that sounds bad from the first time continue as such forever.

Quote:

 

I agree, if you look at the substance of this discussion there is much more consensus than actual debate on this topic. I don't really see what all the fuss is about!

Its fun to discus!

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Its fun to discus!

 
This is 95% of the reason why I'll choose to discuss here.  It's just plain fun.  If you're not interested in the discussion then it'll, of course, often seem meaningless or superfluous, especially when it has to do with audio.  Afterall, one could hand wave away any of these discussions with the opinion that it doesn't matter in so long as I'm enjoying the music. 

 

 

[Anaxilus]

LOL @ grokit!
 
I know I know, I meant to be done w/ the thread.  I just started filling up my ignore list and missed most of the discussion till people started quoting me.  I couldn't resist and started opening up hidden posts.  Hence the delayed response and multiple Brett Favre moments.  

  I swear I'm done now.  Talk to you guys tomorrow!  

 

[Prog Rock Man]

I am surprised at the concensus, I thought I was going to be in for a much harder time.

 

[dexter3d]

Does Sennheiser, AKG, Grado or any other manufacturer put such 'break-in' recommendation in their manuals? If not, why are they hiding such an important secret from their customers???? 'Your headphone will sound better with more hours, so keep listening!' Or perhaps people who made your headphones are ignorant?

 

[maverickronin]

Not that this is an actual argument in favor of burn in, but have you ever seen the HD650 manual?
 
It looks like something that came with a $20 OEM Taiwanese soundcard from 1999.