[gregorio]

Thank you Gregorio (Spanish?).

It’s from Italian.

I have always found your contributions in this thread respectful and interesting.

I’m not attempting to be disrespectful or for that matter interesting, I’m just trying to explain the facts. Whether my responses are taken as respectful and interesting or the exact opposite doesn’t affect whether they’re actually correct. I mention this because a significant amount of audiophile BS (and the “evidence” used to support it) is based on how nice, trustworthy, plausible or experienced the presenter appears to be, instead of whether the assertions/claims are actually true or not.

Anyone can notice that, as I said before, an HE1000se has a better sound (by far) than an Arya Organic (good headphones but less technical) although both have a similar frequency response. What can we measure and study scientifically with measuring devices to check what?

There are some serious problems with that question which makes it impossible to answer scientifically/factually, unless we sort out those problems first. I would question your assertion that “anyone can notice that”, do you have reliable evidence for that or did you just make it up based on your (or other people’s) impressions/assumptions? This isn’t particularly important, I’m just using it to illustrate previous points about making assertions and avoiding confrontation in a science discussion forum. However, what exactly you mean by “better sound” is important and your question cannot realistically be answered without sorting it out. “Better sound” (or pretty much ”better” anything) is a personal valuation/impression/preference and we can’t really wire your brain up to accurately measure it. If by “better sound” you mean “higher fidelity”, then we can measure that, it’s an objective property but if you mean say more enjoyable to you personally, then we need to define that in some way and relate it to some actual audio/sound property, say more bass, less treble, higher volume or whatever. Certainly, there are numerous different types of measurements we can make that given sufficient magnitude can/will affect what you hear. Frequency response is only one such measurement and is typically published because it is the one of the most important. You can have a similar frequency response and the HPs can still sound different for numerous reasons though. They may for example have significantly different sensitivity, significantly higher distortion or lower impedance in certain frequency ranges, they may start clipping at different levels. Even just the frequency response measurements themselves don’t necessarily match your usage. They were probably taken using a dummy head and as as your head probably won’t be identical, the two different headphones are likely to fit you slightly differently and your ear anatomy is also slightly different. So although the FR measurements for two different headphones (on a dummy head) might be very similar, the FR hitting your eardrums (with your head) could be significantly different. Measuring the performance of cables is far simpler though, you’re not plugging cables into your head/ears, so your specific anatomy is irrelevant, we’re not even measuring sound, just the analogue signal exiting the cable and the determination of fidelity is also relatively simple because we only have to compare the analogue signal exiting the cable with the analogue signal that entered the cable.

G

 

[texx2818]

Yep, we’re funny like that. When faced with nonsense/ridiculous assertions and having to repeatedly argue that say 1+1=2, that the Earth isn’t flat or various other proven facts, it‘s very difficult not to eventually appear arrogant. In other forums and sometimes even here, posters are frequently making nonsense/ridiculous assertions, they often do so humbly, in order to save face if anyone picks up on their BS. Although there’s also a great deal of arrogance in other forums too, from those most deluded by the audiophile marketing.

G

Well, at least you admit this place is a cesspool.

 

[gregorio]

Well, at least you admit this place is a cesspool.

Depends on what you think a cesspool is. Whether you think a place where BS is unacceptable and challenged with the actual facts/science is more of a cesspool than a place where BS is the accepted “norm” and the facts/science are actively discouraged or banned?

G

 

[bigshot]

Please post the frequency response graphs of the headphones you want to compare. Otherwise, we’re just talking in theory with no specific info. If there are other measurements, post those too.

EDIT: Never mind. I looked them up. They are two models in the same line and manufacturer. That's why the frequency response is very similar. They likely have many of the same components. The difference is impedance. One is made to not be used with an amp, and the other may require amping to perform at its best. If you amp both of them, you might run into problems with distortion and if you don't amp both you might find response differences. I'm no expert in this stuff. 71dB is well versed in impedance lore.

The other difference is price. It's likely that the manufacturing tolerances on the high end model are tighter than the lower end one, so sample variation would be much less. And of course the difference in price is certain to fire up expectation bias in folks prone to that sort of thing. There may be a difference in the materials used in the ear cups too, but I couldn't find info on that. But the difference is probably impedance/sensitivity (and expectation bias).

 

[bigshot]

Well I can't hear much above 12khz and kids can hear up to 20khz, so I wouldn't feel qualified to tell her she can't possibly hear a difference. Interesting.

There wouldn’t be any audible difference at any audible frequency heard at any age between two proper cables.

 

[Svperstar]

On a related note, this video is pretty sad. This guy is a believer in high end cables. He and his wife could not hear any difference in expensive USB cables when doing a blind test. So he comes to the conclusion that blind testing is wrong.

I like his videos too so its hard to watch him do mental gymnastics to explain away what he heard with his own ears, that a USB cable is a USB cable.

 

[theveterans]

On a related note, this video is pretty sad. This guy is a believer in high end cables. He and his wife could not hear any difference in expensive USB cables when doing a blind test. So he comes to the conclusion that blind testing is wrong.

I like his videos too so its hard to watch him do mental gymnastics to explain away what he heard with his own ears, that a USB cable is a USB cable.

You shouldn't hear any difference in USB cables unless you botch a blind test by using a laptop as source of USB power with a generic printer cable vs a two headed USB cable that only sends data on one port and the power port on a 5v battery pack. The laptop motherboard that is plugged-in to the wall (especially if it has a powerful dedicated GPU) can potentially send "coil whine" to the DAC (e.g. Chord Mojo 1) and its analog stage thus hearing a difference between USB cables

 

[texx2818]

Depends on what you think a cesspool is. Whether you think a place where BS is unacceptable and challenged with the actual facts/science is more of a cesspool than a place where BS is the accepted “norm” and the facts/science are actively discouraged or banned?

G

Everything on this forum is a hobby. People are in it for the feelings they get from the gear and music. Your smug superiority because you can read a graph is pointless. I don't spend money on or believe in cables and power management and all that crap, but at the end of the day, if people do, how does it affect me?

 

[Ryokan]

People are in it for the feelings they get from the gear and music.

Except this is the Science forum where feelings don't count for much.

 

[texx2818]

Except this is the Science forum where feelings don't count for much.

on a hobby forum, for a hobby based in feelings.

 

[Ryokan]

on a hobby forum, for a hobby based in feelings.

There are plenty of threads for how gear makes you feel, this one small sub section is for the experts who will give you a scientific valuation.

 

[BS5711]

on a hobby forum, for a hobby based in feelings.

Plenty of other form options on Head Fi, go to one of those to have your feelings considered.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

Well, at least you admit this place is a cesspool.

Sure is.

This specific forum is a cesspool of arrogance, just move on. There's no point in even engaging. It's just a spot for people to feel better than everyone else to hide the shortcomings in their personal life.

It couldn't be said any better.

 

[BS5711]

On a related note, this video is pretty sad. This guy is a believer in high end cables. He and his wife could not hear any difference in expensive USB cables when doing a blind test. So he comes to the conclusion that blind testing is wrong.

I like his videos too so its hard to watch him do mental gymnastics to explain away what he heard with his own ears, that a USB cable is a USB cable.

Not the only time he has done this. I too generally like his content so it is disappointing to see him try and explain how the test was flawed.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

I'm not sure your original comment is wholly accurate. I gave a shot at revising it above. A scientific explanation is not a fact. It's a hypothesized explanation, which is always subject to revision to reflect new information. I think we would all be better served if that distinction were more acknowledged.

Also, regardless of our position, there's no reason we can't be nice about it. Most of the other subforums don't have this level of hostility.

Your revision is perfect, and is exactly the way someone who actually knew something about science would state things.