[Chris19]

So, you like thrash metal? Maybe even love it? Me too.

It was not love at first listen by any means, though. I think a large part of that is the quality (or lack thereof) of the speakers and headphones I first heard it on. Fast riffs just became noise, high notes sounded like dying cats... I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about.

So while my search is ongoing, I would like to share what I've learned. I'm currently using a Valab DAC and a homemade balanced amp. I'll go in order from the first headphones I ever had, a few pairs of $20 Sony cans, on up...

Sony CD60 / CD180: Uh, we all had to start somewhere. These were fine for early high school, believe it or not. Much more neutral than other crap you can buy for the same price. At the time, online shopping was in its infancy, so selection was limited to the local electronics store. They're tinny and they distort with bass at moderate volume. Sony doesn't sell this line anymore I believe, but the new low end stuff is probably similar. Regardless, look elsewhere.

As a side note, I recently recabled my CD180's with speaker cable in a balanced configuration for fun. All it really did is get the bass to distort faster, as there was more of it. Like wearing a couple of bumble bees on your head.

Sony MDR-V6: I bought these before I became aware of Head-Fi, so I've had them for a few years. Luckly, they aren't a bad purchase. Comfort-wise, they sit right on your ears, so they can get pretty hot and uncomfortable after a time, but they isolate well. About $71 on Amazon.

Speed:
These have moderate speed, but fast riffs can get lost here. Something about the speed of Megadeth's "Holy Wars," for example, is resolved well. However, Megadeth's "Mechanix" has a super fast solo at the end. In this section, you can hear the hardest plucked notes, but the rest blur into each other.

Bass:
Fairly deep and impactful, but sounds disjointed from the rest of the sound spectrum. Drum hits are strong, but bass guitar isn't. Keeping with the Megadeth theme, take a listen to "Dawn Patrol" with these, and the bass notes don't have consistant weight to them. They're just kind of there.

Everything else: They have no soundstage to speak of, really. After all, they're pressed right up against your head. They seem to have odd "holes" in the frequency response, where the lows, mids, and highs feel disjointed from each other. Overall the V6's aren't bad, as the deep bass helps put some life into the tracks. But I might recommend Grado's for the same price...

More to come soon... I plan to give my impressions on the Grado SR-80 / 325i / RS2, Sennheiser HD600s, Beyer DT770s, and more...

 

[djevoultion]

Alessandro MS-Pro

 

[Chris19]

Next up, the Grado series I have heard... unfortunately I'm going by memory on all of these, because I just can't wear the things. Pain city, and unimpressive craftsmanship, but I still enjoyed the sound.

Grado SR80: These were my first pair of Grado's. I bought them in the fall of last year before any of the new series were out, and so I had the bowl pads. As I mentioned, they hurt my ears, mainly because the speaker grill pressed right up against my head. But I liked the way they sounded, and I fell for Grado's ad copy; I thought the 325i's would be a huge step up in sound, so I traded the SR80s in for the 325i. I wish I would have kept the SR80 instead. I did have a few hundred hours on them before trading up. Price: $99.

Speed: My impression was that these cans were quick. The guitars were also LOUD to my ears. Loud to the point where high pitched solos would force me to turn the volume down briefly. So yeah, the SR80's were great for guitars, and they were quicker than the Sony MDR-V6, but not the quickest I've heard. For example, the solo around the 5:40 mark of Metallica's "Master of Puppets" was resolved well, but the spikes in volume overwhelmed me.

Bass: I didn't realize it at the time, but for cheaper open-air cans, these had pretty decent bass. They require a lot of current for this, but if you can supply it, the SR80s will do an OK job for drum and bass notes in metal.

Everything Else: What's up with the cheap feel of these things? I realize its a small manufacturer, but I was not impressed. The foam is a little scratchy, but that's nothing compared to the feeling of the speaker grill right up against your ear (in my opinion). That said, I liked the way they sound. I'm going to give them another listen at Can Jam, for old time's sake. I might sound like I was bashing them, but the open cups made for more realistic sounding highs and snare-drum hits than closed cans. If you only have about a hundred bucks to spend, and you worship the lead guitar, maybe these are your ticket. I'd recommend you try them on before you buy, though.

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Grado SR325i / RS2: I'm going to go ahead and lump these two together, as I didn't have either of them for very long. They're very similar, except they have one important difference: To me, the 325i had a significantly hollow/honky sound, and the RS2 (mostly) did not. I do not know if this is due to the thinner wire used on the back of the speaker cup on the RS2, or the lack of an identification button on said grill, or both. Both headphones had over 200 hours on them, so break-in should not be an issue here. They also did not sound terribly different from the SR80 I upgraded from. Price: $295 for the 325i, $495 for the RS2.

Speed: Very similar to the SR80 detailed above. I did not have the "piercing highs" problem with the 325i's to the extent that I've read about here on Head-Fi. The highs were mostly the same as the SR80, except possibly that different high notes were emphasized more on one model vs. the other.

As far as the RS2 goes, I found it to be a bit more neutral on the top end while retaining the same speed for guitar picking. It wasn't as peaky with the highs, and didn't randomly scream in my ear like a banshee. It was more pleasing to listen to than either of the 325i's or the 80's, possibly because I could listen to the plucks without worrying about my eardrums blowing. So for speed, I think the three Grados are a wash.

Bass: Well, both the 325i and RS2 had better bass than the SR80, but it was of the same character. Nothing to wow you, but not overdone either. Maybe this helps for metal; it certainly does put more emphasis on the guitar and singer.

Everything Else: The 325i is heavier than the RS2. I found the RS2 to be much more comfortable because of this. We're not talking about much weight here, but the RS2 weighs nearly nothing. Anything added just feels like a big difference.

Remember that honky sound I mentioned? I couldn't get rid of it on the 325i. Tried all kinds of music too: Coldplay, the aforementioned metal, The Beatles... it was painfully present when swapping between the RS2 and 325i. Thing is, I even started noticing it on the RS2. It was slight, but it bugged me. So both cans had to go. I couldn't justify the huge cost in the RS2 while it still had the same fundamental sound and fit as the SR80. My opinion: stick with the lower end Grados, and mod them if you want better sound.


Still to come: DT770s, Sennheiser HD600s, Headphile Terminator V4's, V4 Deep Cups, and Sony MDR-SA5000s...

 

[scytheavatar]

You should add the HFI-780 and AD700 to your list. They are not the prefect thrash cans but they are interesting alternatives to the Grados.

 

[Chris19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif You should add the HFI-780 and AD700 to your list. They are not the prefect thrash cans but they are interesting alternatives to the Grados.

Thanks scytheavatar, I'm going to give them a listen at Can Jam for sure. Until then, I'll be writing up little reviews on cans that I own, or borrowed long-term from my friend.

 

[Chris19]

Time for part 3 of my headphones-for-thrash-metal mini reviews! Let's try some Euro closed-back cans...

Beyerdynamic DT770 (80 ohm version): For the record, this is an unmodded/stock cable version. I think I'll stick with the same Megadeth songs for evaluation (Mechanix, Holy Wars, Dawn Patrol, etc.) since most of us reading this thread will be familiar with these songs.

Bass: The lowest notes of bass line from "Dawn Patrol" have a nice rumble to them on these headphones. Kickdrums have a nice slam to them too. To me, most of these songs are mixed a little light in the bass department, so the impact that the DT770 adds is welcome. However, the mids seem slightly recessed in comparison. The bass does feel a bit bloated, and is slower than the mids, so that leads me to my next point...

Speed: These cans feel a little bit sluggish, like some energy is missing from the performance. Listening critically to the ending solo of "Mechanix" again, the fast notes do bleed into each other without a clear stop and start. This, coupled with the bass bloat, means the DT770's can't really keep up with the fastest thrashing. It's a shame, because they're quite pleasing to listen to. But if you love thrash, don't buy these as your primary headphones, because you'll just be missing too much.

Everything else: The DT770's need to be pushed forward towards the front of your head to fully realize the bass and soundstage. For example, when worn correctly, the top and back of my ears are actually underneath the velour pads by a bit. They fit a bit loose as well, so if you're a headbanger, you might want to adopt a sideways nod ala "Night at the Roxbury!"

More mini reviews to come as I get the time, everyone. Feel free to send me any comments or questions!

 

[scytheavatar]

If you can get your hands on them in the meet try the AD2000, Edition 9 and D7000. I think the Edition 9 wins hands on as the ultimate king of thrash metal cans, and as the king of metal in general.

 

[Chris19]

I'm already excited to try the Edition 9, for sure. The only pair of Ultrasone's that I've heard are the Pro 650s, and I liked the S-Logic effect. That model isn't worth the asking price, in my opinion, but I thought it had potential.

Scytheavatar, what do you personally own and use for metal?

 

[catscratch]

You don't mention price so I assume you have a good budget to work with.

I don't listen to a lot of thrash but I do listen to some black and death metal, and requirements there are similar. You want speed more than anything for any kind of extreme metal. Speed = electrostatics, at least properly-done electrostatics that aren't lacking in bass and impact.

Start with the Stax SRS-005a system. Don't judge it by the size since it's the sound that matters. It's a bit soft in the highs, but the mids, the bass, the speed, the tonality on vocals and guitars, it's really something else. A lot like the O2 Mk1 but for a lot less $. Comfort can be an issue when the fit is wrong, but fiddle with the fit and bend the headband to adjust clamping force, and you can get it to pretty comfortable levels.

The Koss ESP950 could work very well too but you'll have to ditch that horrible E-90 amp that comes with it, and get something that can actually drive the phones well. A Stax amp will work but ideally you want something that can be biased to 600v rather than the stock 580v Stax pro bias, so I'd start inquiring with Headamp and Woo Audio for adjustable-bias amps. A properly-driven ESP950 is fantastic, never mind the Koss label, and even though it isn't built like a tank you get that excellent Koss lifetime, no-questions-asked warranty. And they do honor it.

Of course, the Stax O2 Mk1 will do well with thrash metal when it's optimally driven, but unfortunately most amps lack the oomph and the O2 ends up sounding too polite and laid-back. The O2 Mk2 is too colored IMO, but you can try it out as well, though if you do go to a Stax dealer to audition it, it will most likely be paired with the 007t2, which doesn't have the balls to drive it worth a damn. The 727 has a lot more output power, but doesn't sound that great, supposedly. Out of all Stax amps you will want the 717, and when it comes to aftermarket amps, you will want the KGSS, Blue Hawaii, or possibly the new Woo Audio 'stat amp, though we still need to wait on the final specs to make sure it can properly drive the O2. The Mk1 is the best headphone in the world IMO, but it's a pig to drive properly and doesn't sound good when it's underdriven.

I'd stay away from the Stax SR-404, and go into more vintage Lambdas, if you want Lambda-style headphones in the first place. The 404 is a bit too diffuse and thin, not to mention peaky in the upper mids. Out of all new Lambdas I'd pick the 202.

On the (sort-of) dynamic front, you can try the AKG K340. A bass-light pair, properly driven, will be very quick, very crisp, and generally very nice-sounding with most things that don't really need things to sound completely neutral. It's a colored headphone but with some very pretty euphonic colorations. But there are a lot of different versions around, and many have been improperly modded which actually hurts their sound. I'd look for a stock bass-light pair in good condition, and then just do some chassis renovation to it, and of course it's a 400 ohm beast so you will want a real amp. It actually uses permanently-biased electret tweeters that take over at 4khz, and dynamic drivers for everything below that, making it a very unique dynamic-electret hybrid with the virtues of both driver principles. A fantastic vintage headphone when you can score a good example.

But most of all, I'd start with the 005a system, and get a good source, which will be absolutely vital with any kind of electrostat or revealing transducer in general.

 

[Chris19]

Catscratch, thanks for the great, informative post!

I've been leery about electrostatic headphones due to the high voltage and higher amp expense, but I will definitely make sure to give them a try at CanJam in Los Angeles. You're right; I didn't quote a budget because I meant this thread to be a collection of reviews, regardless of price point, that will hopefully become a resource for metal fans. On the flipside, if I want the stats badly enough after listening to them, I guess I'll just have to save up for them!

I guess this is a good place to make a comment about my homemade amp as well. It was primarily designed by my father, but with my input on parts and functionality. (I only have experience with digital circuits!) It's a home unit only, i.e. plugs into the wall. For any DIY types out there, I use four OPA551's with a 24 volt swing for the balanced output. This arrangement should be fine for anything from 32 Ohms on up in single-ended mode. That's all I'll say about it here, but it's way over-engineered, so it should handle the AKG K340's no problem. Perhaps I should order a pair for "testing purposes," eh?

 

[scytheavatar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Scytheavatar, what do you personally own and use for metal?

I use the AD2000. Which I like more than the Grados as it has tamer highs, better soundstage, better resolution and is a lot more all rounded. I like the Edition 9 even more than the AD2000 for metal but not enough to justify buying it when there's so much music I want to buy.

 

[Chris19]

Thanks for the comments everyone. Head-Fi certainly is a friendly place!

Alright, I've got a free moment, so I'd like to do a mini-review of the Sony MDR-SA5000 for thrash metal. I've been putting it off because I recabled the SA5000's for balanced operation about a month ago, and I wanted to get used to any sound changes. I'll give impressions for both single ended and balanced mode listening. If it matters to you, I recabled them with Neotech OCC, solid core 22 gauge copper wire. I cannot honestly point to anything that the cable itself improved. Balanced operation is another story. You can find these for under $400, but not much below, unless you opt for a used pair.

Bass: Overall, the SA5000 doesn't have a ton of bass impact, but it is well extended to my ears. The bass is fast and accurate, meaning thuds on a kickdrum are just a well-defined thud, with no extra resonance. However, in single ended operation, the bass is also quite lean. For example, listening to Megadeth's "Almost Honest," from their Cryptic Writings album, the guitars appear to be tuned in a higher register compared to their earlier work. Listening to this song in single-ended mode on the SA5000 is not an engaging activity.The kickdrum is there, but feels anemic. The bass guitar is there, but lifeless. It's a strange, floaty experience, because I keep expecting some powerful deep notes to balance out the highs, but they never materialize.

When I plug in the SA5000 via balanced operation, the deep end returns. There is more impact to the drums and bass guitar, especially at the lowest frequencies. I don't have a way to measure the sound pressure levels, but I match as closely as I can (important, since balanced operation is much louder than standard operation for the same turn of the volume knob). Even giving standard/single ended operation the benefit of the doubt and an extra few clicks on the attenuator, I still find that balanced operation has more bass, and results in a more lively, engaging performance. It doesn't transform the SA5000 into a different headphone; think of it more as a nudge of encouragement to the bass-shy drivers. A shot of liquid courage, perhaps?

Speed: If you've read up on the SA5000s, you may have come across their reputation as fast 'phones. Indeed, they are fast, and are the fastest headphones I have heard so far. (I'm still waiting to try electrostats.) Ok, so fast meaning what? Let me go back to the ending solo of Megadeth's "Mechanix." I can now clearly hear the stop/start of notes rollicking throughout the solo, even if they're too fast to count. To me, the sharper definition speeds up the song, because I can imagine fingers hammering on the frets, instead of just sliding around on the guitar. In my opinion, without hearing all of these notes defined as they should be, it's very difficult to appreciate speed/thrash metal.

Everything Else: Knowing that there are even faster cans than the Sony's is exciting for me, but I believe these to be "fast enough" for most budgets.

However.

Fit is a big issue with these headphones. The drivers are angled so that the sound bounces off the pinnae of the ear, and Sony accomplished this by extending the rear portion of the driver cup outward, so that a kind of wedge is formed. If you ever made a bike or skateboard ramp out of a wood plank and a couple of wood blocks, you can think of the SA5000 earcups as this, just turned on its side.

The problem is that Sony left the "wood block" riser portion uncovered. It's just hard, black plastic, and this can lead to a hollow, echo-y sound. See JaZZ's post for pictures and a solution here. I also placed some velvet inside the cup, and it does a decent job. Cutting out foam and stuffing the rear of the cup is even better, but the foam ends up swallowing the headstage along with the reverb. If you listen to these headphones exclusively, you eventually get used to the hollow sound and tune it out. But, if you flip between headphones, I think it'll annoy you. Note that not everyone has this effect. I suspect some people's ears do a better job filling the enclosure than others, thus eliminating the reverb naturally.

Otherwise, I find the SA5000 comfortable with a light clamping force, and the wide fabric headband makes enough contact so that they won't fly off easily.

This review turned out a lot longer than I anticipated, so thanks for sticking with me throughout this one. Up next will be either Headphile Terminators and Deep Cups, or balanced HD600s.

 

[kenshin21]

Looking forward to hear your review of my terminators

 

[Chris19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenshin21 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looking forward to hear your review of my terminators

Yeah, it's coming

You have to let me borrow them again first!

 

[catscratch]

Fantastic review, and with your knowledge and DIY skills the sky's the limit in terms of how high your rig will go. I also agree with your observations on the effects of balanced drive, and I did notice the exact same thing with balanced HD600 and HD650 - especially the HD650. The bass tightened up and acquired a lot of slam, speed went up a great deal, and the headphones became a lot more transparent in general - BUT the effects were most visible with very comlex, multi-layered music.

I think that you really cannot test a headphone thoroughly unless you put it through the grinder and toss something very mean and demanding at the drivers, and watch them squirm. Thrash metal that's well recorded is a very good test. I mainly use some very complex electronica, large-scale orchestral classical pieces, and some well-recorded death metal. In all cases, the vast majority of dynamic drivers begin to buckle under the strain, and resolution on each instrument and each individual passage and layer starts being lost. Spacial information goes as well and imaging begins to blur together. Say what you will about this being a more natural presentation, but when you're on stage or in the first row as I've been many times you can very clearly make out spatial information, and while detail in real music isn't presented in a forward, analytical way as it is with some gear it is still all there.

Balanced drive does make a dynamic be able to handle the stress of difficult music much more easily.

Still, electrostats are ultimately the way to go and whatever you throw at them they only laugh in your face and keep on trucking... that is, keep on churning out perfectly resolved and perfectly detailed music, to the extent that the drivers and signal path allow. Some electrostats do lack bass and lack driver excursion, which is a driver principle limitation just as transient response is a problem for dynamic drivers in general. But there are electrostats that have overcome this problem, in fact quite a bit more of them than you'd think, and they're as a rule better at bass impact and extension than dynamics are at speed. Far, far better.

Anyway, this wasn't meant to become a rant. It's great that you're going to CanJam, and you will be able to hear all the serious 'stats and awesome rigs in general. In your shoes I would focus on DIY pretty much exclusively and put together a good 'stat amp and a good DAC. I'd do the same except that I don't have a physics background and can't tell the difference between my *** and a soldering iron, but I suppose that given enough time I could learn.

Looking forward to the HD600 impressions.