[Kyran]

So I've got a Modi/Magni stack. Everything was wonderful, butterflies would occasionally spring forth from the ventilation holes on the top of the Magni's chassis, the heat radiating from the top of the stack would keep my tea warm, those courageous white LEDs would keep the monsters away at night. But then I discovered a problem. There's this low level noise coming from the chain, but only when there's audio playing. With no signal the thing's dead silent. I ran some low frequency sine waves through it so I could hear the noise better without it being masked by music. It sounds like RF noise, and the fact that it increases when moving windows around on screen reinforces the idea that it's some kind of interference.
 
I tried different configurations of hardware to isolate the problem. Poopy old M-Audio interface > Magni, no noise. Modi > RCA in of stereo receiver, noise. So the Modi's the culprit. Schiit promptly sent me a replacement board and instructions on performing a ritual for banishing ghouls, poltergeists and mother-in-laws. To my dismay, the problem lingered. The beast still stalked me, its gutteral growl tormenting me like Poe's Tell-Tale Heart. I've tried different USB cables, different headphones, different USB ports, different audio drivers, different computers. I unplugged the router, chucked the cordless phones, turned off all electronic equipment including my monitors.
 
This noise is very sneaky and persistent. We've pretty much run out of options. One suggestion that I haven't been able to try was plugging it into a powered USB hub. Perhaps the Modi isn't getting enough power from the USB port and that's causing the interference issue. The odd thing is, it's plugged into a desktop PC with a 1000w power supply. If anything can power it, it should be this computer. The issue also persists on a laptop, so it can't be some noise issue internal to my PC. If the Modi really has power issues with my desktop, I don't see how it could run fine on other systems. Unfortunately it doesn't have an option for an external power supply so there's no way to verify or solve this bus powered issue. I've considered the Bifrost which does have an external power supply, but that's a pretty sharp price to pay just to fix a noise issue.
 
I'm hoping someone has some insight into my poor haunted DAC. Modi users, do you not have this problem? Like I said, it's silent when there's no signal being played so I didn't notice it for a long time. You can hear it quite clearly if you play low sine waves. It's aggravated by moving things around on screen for me. If this does boil down to the Modi needing a powered hub to function properly, it should just come with its own power adapter. One less thing to carry around with you. I really don't want to have to get rid of my Modi because the pair work so well together. I'm also loyal to Schiit. Apart from this noise issue, the stack is really great and versatile. It's a positive thing to offer value on a budget, so I want to be able to continue to fly my Schiity flag. I also don't think there's many other companies who would play along with fanciful audiophilia mythology support emails or send me paper cut outs of unicorns and a dragon (yes really) so the best case scenario would be sorting out the noise issue and keeping my stack of Schiit.
 
So how do I banish this trans-dimensional phantom? Do I need more nano crystals? Do I need RCAs shielded with strips cut from the shroud of Turin? I bet a diamond plated USB cable would solve it? I'm hoping someone has some ideas.
 
Cheers

 

[Mad Max]

LOL, good read
Also, you won't get interferences from a lack of power.
 
Sounds like a problem with the USB receiver chip inside of the Modi.  Tell Schiit, but also tell them what the USB transmitter on your computer's motherboard is.  You should be able to find it near the USB ports that you use for the Modi.  Maybe the transmitter is slightly faulty or perhaps it "doesn't like" the Modi or something.

 

[TeskR]

Do you have access to a laptop or other computer to test it on?

 

[Vitriform]

I definitely recommend trying the powered USB hub. I was having exactly the same problem with my own Modi (low-level noise only when audio plays, extra noise when moving the mouse or typing, etc.) and it cleared right up when I plugged it into a powered hub. Just be warned that you'll continue to get interference if you plug certain devices into the powered hub with the Modi (mice, keyboards, and external hard drives will all cause problems), at least from my testing.

 

[ncaudiophile]

I've had modi x 6 months. Great value. Flawless performance

 

[HPiper]

I have 2 Modi, one optical and one USB and no problems on either one of them. I'd say it almost certainly has something to do with your USB implementation on your PC. Powered USB hub and be very careful what else you plug into it. Make a nice hat out of tin foil to wear while listening to your headphones (j/k)

 

[ncaudiophile]

I've had zero probs w USB Modi. Just works.

 

[Kyran]

Hey, I've been out of town for a while so I missed the replies to this thread, but I picked up a brand new USB cable to try on the off chance that all the ones I had laying around were garbage. I had a surprisingly hard time finding a powered hub anywhere so I was hoping the cable might do it. I was pretty surprised to plug in the new cable only to have my audio sound like it was put through a wood chipper. Tons of distortion and clicks, almost as if I had my buffer settings horribly wrong and had a Fuzz Face guitar pedal in between my headphones and amp. I'm actually really surprised at how badly this cable messed up the audio. I didn't think a garbage USB cable could produce such savage sound. It was the nicest one I could find at Walmart, I assumed it would at least be functional. The cable could be defective, or maybe the Modi is just really sensitive to USB quality? Since I'm getting weird clipping and drop outs, it sounds like it's having a hard time clocking or something? It's a really excessive degradation of sound though, so perhaps the cable is just a dud. I'll have to test it with some other equipment to confirm. I tried at a couple different sample rates, through native windows sound and also asio4all. Swapping back to the old cable fixes it apart from the original interference noise.
 
I'm thinking my best bet now is to grab a powered hub off amazon and try it with the original cable I was using. If that doesn't do it, the new cable I got should be long enough to tie a solid noose.
 
For reference, my computer has an Asus P6T6 WS motherboard and a 1000w Corsair PSU. I've also tried it on a laptop with the same results.

 

[Vitriform]

Do you have a Best Buy near you? They should also have powered hubs.

 

[Kyran]

Nope, I checked Walmart, Radio Shack, and The Source. I didn't think they'd be so hard to find. Lots of bus powered hubs but none with external PSUs. I'm probably just gonna go with Amazon instead of driving around trying to find a decent one somewhere. No store is closer than my mailbox.

 

[ncaudiophile]

It may cost more than you want to spend, but Schiit has a new device that might clean up the signal, Wyrd USB Decrapifier
USB power Isolator for $99.

 

[Kyran]

Hmm that's interesting. Obviously they seem to be more aware of how sensitive the Modi is than they let on. I'm surprised Alex didn't mention that they were about to release a product that fixes the exact problem we were trying to solve. Could have saved a fair bit of wasted time, not to mention the shipping and cost of a replacement Modi board.
 
I generally see Schiit as offering very good value but the price of this is frankly ********. You're telling me the value of the DAC and the value of the circuit required to keep the DAC from malfunctioning are equal? Shouldn't this thing be integrated in the Modi in the first place? I understand the need to keep costs down but c'mon even my garbage old M-Audio Fast Track USB first generation doesn't have this interference issue and it was engineered by chimps several standard deviations below the average chimp intelligence. I could understand if I was trying to power the Modi with an iPad or something but a hefty desktop with a workstation motherboard and a 1000w power supply or even the laptop I tried are far from unusual use cases. If the Modi can't function properly in an arbitrary but not atypical scenario without an external power source, then add an AC jack with the option to include the wall wart. Raise the price 20 bucks if you have to. But don't sell your customers another box that costs the price of the damn DAC itself that's basically just functioning as the power supply that should have been included in the first place. Bus power is redundant anyway; it doesn't make the Modi any more portable. Any amp is going to require a power supply, and so is the Wyrd assuming you care about getting rid of all the dirt in the signal. I'd rather have 2 boxes with 2 wall warts than 3 boxes, 2 wall warts and an extra USB cable. If I cared more about portability than sound quality, I'd just use the headphone jack on the front of the computer.
 
From a lusty aesthetic perspective, a triple stack of matching Schiit boxes could actually be kind of cool. But pragmatically, when you realize that one of those boxes is redundant and is actually just a clean power supply that costs 100% of the price of the box it feeds, you start to feel like a bit of a chump. I think it's a bit insulting to customers and the Modi itself. I need to double the price just to decrapify my DAC? It doesn't come pre-decrapified? What's the point in investing in an external DAC if it's no less prone to noise and interference than the cheap internal DAC inside my computer?

 

[sub50hz]

  The odd thing is, it's plugged into a desktop PC with a 1000w power supply. If anything can power it, it should be this computer. The issue also persists on a laptop, so it can't be some noise issue internal to my PC. If the Modi really has power issues with my desktop, I don't see how it could run fine on other systems.

 
Just a couple of quick points here:
 
1.) Your 1000W power supply does not mean that there's more USB power available. Current is delivered according to what Intel specs for the ICH10R, probably somewhere in the area of 500-750mA.
 
2.) A few X58-era Asus motherboards had USB power issues caused largely by heinous BIOS coding or worse yet, poor trace layout. If you've tried both chipset- and controller-supplied USB outputs and experienced the same issue, I would start looking elsewhere (and update your BIOS, just for good measure).
 
3.) Windows laptops are a crapshoot with USB, some are implemented very well and others quite poorly. Until you've exhausted every configuration troubleshooting measure on your desktop, I would not look to a laptop for comparison.
 
4.) You could try isolating power by using a power/data USB splitter and using a battery pack or external supply to provide power. 
 
 
Don't assume that your own system is not at fault -- and don't try to pass the blame back to Schiit unless you can be absolutely certain that one or more of your components is not the cause.

 

[Vitriform]

  Hmm that's interesting. Obviously they seem to be more aware of how sensitive the Modi is than they let on. I'm surprised Alex didn't mention that they were about to release a product that fixes the exact problem we were trying to solve. Could have saved a fair bit of wasted time, not to mention the shipping and cost of a replacement Modi board.
 
I generally see Schiit as offering very good value but the price of this is frankly ********. You're telling me the value of the DAC and the value of the circuit required to keep the DAC from malfunctioning are equal? Shouldn't this thing be integrated in the Modi in the first place? I understand the need to keep costs down but c'mon even my garbage old M-Audio Fast Track USB first generation doesn't have this interference issue and it was engineered by chimps several standard deviations below the average chimp intelligence. I could understand if I was trying to power the Modi with an iPad or something but a hefty desktop with a workstation motherboard and a 1000w power supply or even the laptop I tried are far from unusual use cases. If the Modi can't function properly in an arbitrary but not atypical scenario without an external power source, then add an AC jack with the option to include the wall wart. Raise the price 20 bucks if you have to. But don't sell your customers another box that costs the price of the damn DAC itself that's basically just functioning as the power supply that should have been included in the first place. Bus power is redundant anyway; it doesn't make the Modi any more portable. Any amp is going to require a power supply, and so is the Wyrd assuming you care about getting rid of all the dirt in the signal. I'd rather have 2 boxes with 2 wall warts than 3 boxes, 2 wall warts and an extra USB cable. If I cared more about portability than sound quality, I'd just use the headphone jack on the front of the computer.
 
From a lusty aesthetic perspective, a triple stack of matching Schiit boxes could actually be kind of cool. But pragmatically, when you realize that one of those boxes is redundant and is actually just a clean power supply that costs 100% of the price of the box it feeds, you start to feel like a bit of a chump. I think it's a bit insulting to customers and the Modi itself. I need to double the price just to decrapify my DAC? It doesn't come pre-decrapified? What's the point in investing in an external DAC if it's no less prone to noise and interference than the cheap internal DAC inside my computer?

Have you tried just a regular powered USB hub yet? You can get one for a fraction of a price of the Wyrd.

 

[Kyran]

Well like I said, other interfaces don't have the issue so it's some inherent sensitivity to interference in the Modi. I don't mean to say that the Modi is making noise all on its own. Obviously there's people with cleaner USB power who don't have this issue. But 2/2 computers I've tried have the noise. If poor USB implementation is so common, and the Modi is so delicate when it comes to power, then Schiit shouldn't be relying on bus power. Add in some filtering like other interfaces/DACs do. Or use external power like the rest of their DACs including the optical Modi. Or sell this Wyrd thing but not for the same price that the DAC itself costs.
 
I've tried all 9 USB ports. My BIOS is up to date. I've already gone through every other troubleshooting step with Schiit. They sent me the replacement Modi board because it was obvious by process of elimination that it was a Modi issue. When that one had the identical issue they were stumped and suggested a powered hub. If a powered hub or the Wyrd fixes the noise issue that's great, but the thing is I don't want to have to buy this superfluous gear just to have my DAC work as it should. If the Modi can't reliably power itself via USB from a subset of users' computers, it should have an AC plug or a filter circuit to clean up the bus power. The problem itself didn't really piss me of at all. It's the fact that I spent all this time troubleshooting while they were getting ready to release a product that caters to the exact problem I have. And yet no mention from them that they were aware the Modi is unreliable when it comes to bus power. If the Wyrd was 20 bucks I would have bought it already no questions asked. But doubling the price of the DAC just to get it to perform the way it was intended is a bit ridiculous.