[bhd812]

What to do?

My Rega p3 and my Grado sonata not getting along?



I upgraded to the Grado sonata Cart a few months ago, though I love the sound I just dont want to listen to vinyl no more...like its fatiguing. then again I am not to sure of liking the sound cause I really haven't heard any other cart's before. when I have my speakers on I am getting massive wow and flutter to, this bugs me cause its telling me something is wrong.
I tried to isolate the rega from the stand but nothing works.

anybody know of the relationship between REga TT's and Grado Carts? maybe their not good together?

The worst part is if I sell it then I am going to loose my butt! The Grado Sonata costs $500 and audiogon they go for $250ish. I looked into upgrading or modding the Rega but to be honest I rather go out and buy a new Vpi Scout instead of investing more money into something I am not happy with.

I am very close to putting on my old superexx cart back on to compare but I am afraid of this cause I don't not to hurt the Grado cart while changing.


When I had the Superexx on I loved to listen to the vinyl, and I mean loved it. the wow and flutter was nothing compared to what I have now.
any ideas? help? free carts?...lol j/k

 

[Jeff Wong]

I wonder if the height of the Grado cartridge is affecting your Vertical Tracking Angle (VTA) in a negative way, causing the headshell or cartridge to not be parallel to the record surface. Roy Gandy, the Rega designer doesn't feel VTA makes much of a difference, but, Michael Fremer of Stereophile swears by it. Check you old cartridge and see if it lines up closer to parallel with the record than the Grado. I can't be sure, but, it's possible this could contribute to the sound being the way it is.

Roy Gandy on VTA:

http://www.n.mackie.btinternet.co.uk...regaonvta.html

These aftermarket tweaks might help you if the problem has to do with VTA:

http://www.amusicdirect.com/products...asp?sku=AMRVTA

http://www.amusicdirect.com/products...ku=AVPIREGAVTA

Or, you could just use shims to alter the height.

 

[bhd812]

Oh I have a Grace 707/747 arm to..sorry for not stating that.

When I had the cart installed they adjusted it, though out of the two men doing this one said it should be lower and one said it should be higher...I trust both with my ears but I will try this now.

thank you

 

[kentamcolin]

Perhaps doing some research over at audioasylum would shed some light. My guess is a mismatch with the cartridge and arm. I have a Scout and tried a Grado Reference Master cartridge on it first. There was some truly holographic imaging going on and a very nice midrange, but no matter where I set VTA there was no bottom end at all and there was always a lot of siblance with nearly all records. I also had tracking problems on records that weren't perfectly flat. I fiddled with it for several weeks but finally sold off the Grado and fitted a Dynavector DV20XH and immeditely all was well. Lots of bass, no siblance, smooth sound, tracks like a freight train. If you can get a Scout I highly recommend the table, but I think your current problems can be solved with a better cartridge match.

 

[memepool]

The Grace arm you have was quite highly rated in the 70's but it's probably not going to give of it's best on a Rega as it was usually matched with suspended subcasis decks like the Linn LP12. The Rega's initially came fitted with an Acos derived S-shaped Rega arm and then later (80's) with the legendary RB250/300 which they still come with today.
Your current set-up is the result of an upgrade from the Acos arm I would imagine. This is quite a strange rig you have.

The wow and flutter (speed instability) you are hearing would have more to do with the deck itself than the tonearm. Have you tried changing the belt?

Also perhaps the Grado cart is letting you hear more of the problems with the table that were there before but masked by the old cartridge.

Basically a brand new 500 dollar cart is never going to give it's best on a set-up like this.

You can do one of the following.

Hang onto the table / cart and upgrade the arm for a Rega RB250. This will bring your Rega table upto modern spec, but will completely change the sound and might not be to your liking.

If you like the sound your set up was making before changing the cart then you could go a better table, preferably a suspended subchassis deck, from the 70's/80's like the Aristons, Acoustic Research, Thorens, Linn etc. Keeping the Grace arm and Grado cart. A better quality deck would allow the arm and cart to work to their fullest potential and give you more of that warm euphonic vinyl sound you are missing.

lastly you could just ditch the whole lot and go for an off-the-peg solution like a more modern Rega or the Scout deck which would sound well "modern".

The only way to decide really is to listen to current decks in a Hi-Fi dealers or a friends. The sound of vinyl replay has changed quite a bit in the last 30 years. Some people like the modern sound others do not. You need to hear a wider array of decks before making up you mind.

 

[Garbz]

I don't buy into the arm doesn't work with a cartridge idea. I just bought a Garrott P77 cartridge 3 days ago despite loads of information on the net saying it's a missmatch against the RB300 and won't sound good. Well the store which recomended it set it up and i've never heard a nicer source (even for sources double or 3 times the price).

 

[GWN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz I don't buy into the arm doesn't work with a cartridge idea. I just bought a Garrott P77 cartridge 3 days ago despite loads of information on the net saying it's a missmatch against the RB300 and won't sound good. Well the store which recomended it set it up and i've never heard a nicer source (even for sources double or 3 times the price).

Garbz, I don't know why the info on the net would say its a poor match. If you do the calculation you will find that the effective resonance of you RB300 and P77 is around 9.2 Hz. Quite a good match. Any arm/cartridge combo showing an effective resonance between 8 and 12 hz is fine. You can go outside that range but may get mistracking issues due to record warps or bass feedback. Your combo is in the ideal zone so I don't understand why people would say its a mismatch?

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWN If you do the calculation you will find that the effective resonance of you RB300 and P77 is around 9.2 Hz. Quite a good match. Any arm/cartridge combo showing an effective resonance between 8 and 12 hz is fine.

http://www.audiotic.com/T&TSetup/T&TSetupFS.htm is useful. These kind of issues are less common though these days unless you are running vintage kit as modern arms like the Rega's have a very wide range, and will work with most modern cartridges.

 

[SpeedyClip]

I have a Rega Planar 9 with a Grado Sonata cartridge.
 
First, the height of the arm has to be raised so that the turntable's arm is parallel to the record (use an alignment tool for this).  Next, my Grado Sonata was specially wound so that the output is somewhat less than standard.  This was done to keep the cartridge from receiving hum from the turntable motor through induction.  If you are not having a problem with hum as the arm/cartridge travels toward the center of the LP then this is not a problem for you.  However, regardless of the cartridge and arm there is a particular relationship that must be acquired, which includes height.  The Grado cartridge is taller than the standard Rega cartridge, thus requiring an adjustment.  A good audio store should be able to supply three cylinder-like shims that will raise the height of the arm at its base.  Be careful.  This is a delicate adjustment.

 

[SpeedyClip]

I have a Rega Planar 9 with a Grado Sonata cartridge.
 
First, the height of the arm has to be raised so that the turntable's arm is parallel to the record (use an alignment tool for this).  Next, my Grado Sonata was specially wound so that the output is somewhat less than standard.  This was done to keep the cartridge from receiving hum from the turntable motor through induction.  If you are not having a problem with hum as the arm/cartridge travels toward the center of the LP then this is not a problem for you.  However, regardless of the cartridge and arm there is a particular relationship that must be acquired, which includes height.  The Grado cartridge is taller than the standard Rega cartridge, thus requiring an adjustment.  A good audio store should be able to supply three cylinder-like shims that will raise the height of the arm at its base.  Be careful.  This is a delicate adjustment.