[darkswordsman17]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcpoor /img/forum/go_quote.gif darkswordsman17, what source/amp did you use for your comparisons? thanks.

Well, nothing great really, some laptops, headphone jack on my Sony CD player (its actually solid though). So, synergy isn't really something that I delve into. The main point though is that I know what my sources offer and so it allows me to compare the headphones and determine which appeals to my ears. Once that process is over, then I go looking for synergy.

As of now, I've started tinkering with the W1000. Its good very good, but not quite what I'm looking for. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get what I want, so it might prove for not, but at least I'll know for sure, and can then go from there.

One last thing. Keep in mind the limitations in my reviews. For instance, most of the comparisons were not direct. They used the same equipment but were not back to back. I tend to have a pretty good memory, but I also tend to go more with feeling than do a direct comparison (I don't sit there and analyze it excessively, I generalize based on liking the sound and what part I liked/didn't like). I think it is very important for you to experience it for yourself and form your own opinion, which is why I've been shuffling through so many lately.

As you can probably tell, the W5000s are easily my favorite, so why don't I have them now and just say, thats it for me and move on to other aspects? I had to be sure. Based on the sound signature of the W5000s, I would not have believed that I would like them as much as I do. Also, I did not expect the sound to be so much better compared to lower end models. I was expecting big diminishing returns. It sounds like the D2000-D5000 is more in line with what I was expecting (not to say the D5000 isn't worth the extra, I couldn't tell you as I haven't heard them yet, and it'd probably be more like W1000-W5000 which some people say there's not a large difference).

 

[darkswordsman17]

After doing some tinkering, I'm liking the W1000s a lot more. I initially did the Fitz F5005 mod, as someone mentioned doing it to the W1000s in that thread, but I didn't like the sound. I basically dampened the outside (but didn't cover up vents/openings) of the driver housing (the central black enclosure) with some tack. Then I filled in the indention on the outer part of the wood cups (there's a lip that goes round the outside) with tack. Lastly I backed the outer, non-driver part of the main housing (the part covered with tack in the Fitz mod) with cotton (condensing it so its thicker but doesn't protrude into the chamber). Oh, and I took out the gray foam rings (I think a big part of why bass impact doesn't seem to have gone down much).

Before the sound felt a little forced and convoluted, but now things are opened up nicely. A little trebly actually although much more enjoyable than on the A900s or DT770s when I modded them in a similar manner. Bass is tight, clean, and punchy, with a little lost impact Something strange I found is that the bass quantity didn't seem to change all that much between the various ways I tried modding, it just would go from feeling bloated (which while it didn't seem to overpower the other frequencies like the DT770 does, but it does detract from them).

The only remaining issue is that they just aren't as wide and airy as the W5000s. Not worse, just different, and I prefer the W5000s in that respect, but the W1000s are much more enjoyable now. Now they sound like sitting about 1/3 of the way from the stage in a medium sized hall. Stock was more like 1/4 of the way from the stage. Not a huge change, but I prefer the slightly further back position.

Now, I just need to wait on a couple of more components and see how it does and if there's any synergy. Definitely am thinking something to add some solid controlled bass to balance out the spectrum.

So after mods:
Better all around (loses a bit on a couple of the "heavy" recordings but gains in others, and gains big in other music).
Better clarity and separation, but still coherent sound (the W5000s do a sort of layering effect which makes the overall sound less coherent, not necessarily a bad thing).
Bass is much tighter, more punchy, with little lost quantity.
Isolation is improved (not hugely but still noticeably).

Some more thoughts. If you want more bass can probably not put as dense of backing on the outer part of the main front enclosure (the part that is gray fiberglass with the white paper type material on it). Could probably open them up in soundstage by removing the black central housing, although you'd have to secure the driver somehow otherwise it'd fall out. Might want to dampen the back of the driver which will push the midrange forward. Bass would probably increase by quite a bit as well.

Here's some things I've found pretty consistent when modding a variety of headphones.
Dampening the back of the driver = midrange push
Dampening the back of the outer driver enclosure (part facing towards ear surround the central driver) = high end push (or bass reduction if you prefer)
Opening up the chamber (but still must be mostly closed with exception of a couple of small vents) = low end push
Stuffing the earpads (pushing the driver away from your ear) = bass and high end push (midrange becomes recessed)

For instance, with the MarkL Denon mods, I think what happens is the bass is tightened a lot by reducing the size of the chamber in the enclosure, and then the dampening on the back of the driver pushes the mids, then stuffing the earpads recesses them and pushes the bass and high end back out. The key is to find what is the sweet spot for your ears. You may or may not want to achieve this in the two various ways, depending on if pushing the driver away improves soundstage to you. If you don't want that, then I'd say don't stuff the earpads and don't stuff the internal chamber (but dampen it).

I recommend dampening the housing (I like tack myself) when increasing bass otherwise you can get reverberations/vibrations (that aren't positive to the sound). I think you could actually achieve various changes on even open cans in a similar fashion, but I don't have any to test my theories out on.

If it helps you might compare it with a subwoofer. Larger enclosure tends to increase bass, closing vents decreases bass (you want some porting just not too much). The reason why increasing the frontside chamber (the space in the earpads where your ear is, the room if you will) is because its more sealed than when typically dealing with regular speakers. So dampening the back part where the bass generally comes through helps reduce it/tighten it. I'm sure if you wanted to you could go much more in depth, like you can with speaker enclosures. I don't know how much is calculated by the headphone manufacturers, and so I think that might be why some headphones really improve and others don't as much.

 

[atothex]

I think you should try exploring different upstream options.

I recently got a pair of AD2000s, and I took them to work with my Nano and Pico yesterday, just for kicks. Let me tell you, I was VERY disappointed with the sound, even though an iPod dock out into Pico is supposedly one of the better transportable combos around. I much preferred running a lowly KSC75 through the combo over my AD2000s.

I then took it home, hooked it up to my home system, and it sounded good again! It literally sounded like an entirely different headphone, not even remotely close to what I heard from my iPod into Pico. To me, synergy and upstream quality is very real and can make up for hundreds of dollars in different headphones. This includes musical synergies, too.

I guess my point is, mods are good fun, but they will affect synergy if/when you eventually get around to upgrading your DAC and amp. Maybe you can achieve your desired sound without even resorting to mods.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Ok, so an update. I recently reacquired a pair of W5000. Yeah, this is the headphone for me. I know others will disagree, but these sound good out of anything. They make bad recordings sound good while not hiding that its a bad recording, they're honest about that, they just make sure you don't lose enjoyment either. Very musical as well. Now, while I firmly hold the opinion that I'd be more happy with these out of just about any headphone jack, a recent experience gave me a glimpse about how they scale.

My setup for a little while has been Sony CA70ES-> E-MU 0404 USB (via optical)-> Little Dot I+. My plan was to sell off the W1000, 0404, and Little Dot and then go with the W5000 until I can save up for a better source and amp. All I can say is wow. Listening to the snobs (no offense, you're jaded, but rightfully so, I would be too if I had the setups some of you have) talk about how it sounds with the HA-5000, or some of the other high end gear must be truly mindblowing. Thankfully I did find out that I still enjoyed them plenty straight out of the jack on the Sony. In the end, I just love listening to these, source be damned (I was running through my collection to do the comparison, and ended up just listening to my music instead).

Oh, one last thing about them, the W5000 is a headphone full of contradictions. They're closed but open and airy sounding. They're neutral but also colored. They're comfortable but have fit issues. Analytical but musical. They're very easily driven (put it this way, 25% volume on my laptop and I still have to turn the volume in the program down, which no other headphone I've used in the past year can claim) but crave some real power to be put through them. Baffling but somehow it all makes sense.

 

[Pyriel0]

I wish we lived closer lol (st louis area here). I would bring my dac/amp just to be able to listen to those cans for awhile. How did you get your hands on soo many nice headphones anyways?

Btw the shanling puts out approx 1000-1050mw at 40 ohms and the w5000's are rated 2000mw. I have no idea what amp can fully power them besides that specially made one.

 

[xrfxlove]

Thank you for your review. Can you talk more about the difference between STAXs and ATHs. I am interested in STAXs, but I don't know if it's good for me.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyriel0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wish we lived closer lol (st louis area here). I would bring my dac/amp just to be able to listen to those cans for awhile. How did you get your hands on soo many nice headphones anyways? Btw the shanling puts out approx 1000-1050mw at 40 ohms and the w5000's are rated 2000mw. I have no idea what amp can fully power them besides that specially made one.

Ah, yeah, just have the state of Missouri in between. I would love to hear them with that Shanling too (since it seems to be a clone of the Audio-Technica amps). I think the I+ should be putting out about 600-700mW. I don't get much play on the volume knob with them on it, they get loud pretty quickly. They'd get really loud with 50%+ that power pumping through them.

Basically saved up a bit, bought the A900Ti as a birthday present, and then splurged when W5000s came up for a great price, and they got me hooked. I had to sell them too quickly, and then decided to try a few other things as opportunities popped up, and ended up back at W5000s. Unfortunately I've neglected the rest of my system, but for the price that you can get good condition W5000s in the FS/T forum, it'd be tough to beat them with any combination of components for that price.

Now I've got a problem finding a source. I like the E-MU but I bought it for USB and its unusable there with my laptop (latency issues because of poor USB ports). It didn't help that my hard drive that I had all my music backed up on crapped out right when I was switching computers. I thought about going vinyl, but I have so little knowledge that I wouldn't know where to start (and in a way part of the charm of vinyl would be finding someone dumping some old gem of a turntable and some nice old records or something). I actually really like a DAP's convenience, but I have no real need for most of its pros and so no reason I should settle for its cons either. CD is ok, I really like just putting some albums in and listening, but my current player's sound quality is just ok (good for what I paid, but, especially analog out isn't awe inspiring), and because I don't have the remote for it, some of its convenience is lost as well. I'm kinda thinking a quality DVD player (Oppo? Maybe get one of the Toshiba HD-DVD players cheap?) since I also like to watch movies. I could do analog out to an amp, and then use it as a transport for a DAC later. Also might gain DVD-A and SACD capability

 

[darkswordsman17]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrfxlove /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you for your review. Can you talk more about the difference between STAXs and ATHs. I am interested in STAXs, but I don't know if it's good for me.

It's a bit tough since I didn't have that STAX for very long at all. Also, I couldn't get over how open they are (not sound character wise, but literally how much they let in and leak out). They seemed more neutral than the W5000, and they weren't as good with the lower frequencies (something after a little tinkering I think the W5000s do very well actually). To be honest, I never really gave them a chance, and they lost out since I'd already had the speed and detail wow factor from the W5000s just prior to them. I think this last part is substantial, as without having tried the W5000s, I think I might have been willing to look over my other issues in order to have it.

Comfort wise, both are exellent and you could easily listen for hours on end. For me, I don't know that the STAX or worse, but the W5000 just has a certain magic to my ears that literally nothing else I've heard has. Other headphones have had certain parts, but none of them all of it.

 

[RefreshMusic]

Thinking of selling my w5000s, anyone interested?