[radrd]

My new Cyrus CD7Q cdp apparently has the ability to change the absolute phase of the audio signal via a button on the remote. I haven't tried it yet, and I suppose that I could just do it and see if I can hear a difference between normal and inverted, but I'm curious exactly what this "phase" stuff is all about and whether or not it will have any impact on the sound. Any light anyone can shed would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[radrd]

Nevermind. After reading on Audio Asylum, I see that as many as 50% of CDs are recorded out of phase. I'm still not sure what "out of phase" means and I find it hard to believe that 50% are out of phase, but regardless, I read that by inverting the phase some CDs will "come into focus." I'll have to give it a try and see what happens. Supposedly the difference should be quite noticeable, but if I don't hear any difference, then leaving it in normal phase is probably best.

 

[daniel422]

This is simply swapping the positive and negative of the signal. You could get the same effect by swapping the cables going to your speaker +/- terminals, in this case the button probably is inverting the bits at the DAC (easy way).
I've heard that 50% number before as well. Apparently phase isn't paid attention too much in the mastering process.
As for what phase is -- think of a speaker driver with a single pulse going to it. Let's say in normal phase the driver would start all the way back and push out -- negative phase would start the driver all the way out and go back. This isn't as bad as it sounds, since sound is multiple vibrations, not a single pulse, but it can have quite an audible effect on some music. Bass will sound much fuller and imaging can sound different.
Ultimately it's really up to your ear to determine what's correct and sounds best to you. I got anal about it once upon a time and started marking CDs with labels indicating playback phase. I don't tend to do that anymore -- maybe I've mellowed in my old age

 

[radrd]

Thanks Daniel!

That's exactly the response I was hoping for. I've tried it out with a couple of disks, and to be honest, I can't here much, if any difference between normal and inverse. But, I'm going to keep playing with it to see what happens.

 

[ZimBlabim]

radrd, How do you like your CD7Q? I did a quick search around, and didn't find too much good info about it. Where'd you buy it btw?

 

[radrd]

Quote:

radrd, How do you like your CD7Q?

It's the last redbook source that I will ever need. I also bought the external PSX-R power supply for it. It's an outstanding player!

Quote:

I did a quick search around, and didn't find too much good info about it.

Check out British magazines/sites. What Hi-Fi? and Hi-Fi Choice have said very good things about it.

Here's a review:
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=2072

Quote:

Where'd you buy it btw?

I bought it from a private seller on Audiogon. It's probably possible to buy one in Canada, as (according to the seller) Cyrus has an authorized service center in Vancouver. He also told me that Cyrus is coming to the US soon; California IIRC.

There is a new CD8 coming out, so you might want to keep an eye out for that one, though it will probably be hard to get in the US for a while.

 

[D-EJ915]

well, if you've got a speaker that has 2 woofers, one in-phase, and one out-of-phase, when one pushes out, the other pushes in...it sort of increases power handling by keeping the air pressure inside the same (if sealed), if you do that in a ported box you're an idiot)...never heard it though


is it true that some speakers can become damaged if run out-of-phase??...I heard that, but doesn't make much sense

 

[princeclassic]

the only way your speakers could be damaged as a result of having them out of phase with eachother is if there was so much noise cancellation that you turn up the volume too high and the amp clips and/or the speaker blows.

 

[scrypt]

50% -- even 15% -- of most CDs, mastered out of phase? I highly doubt it.

Most albums that come out of New York are mastered by Howie Weinberg at Masterdisk. I sat in the room with the guy twice and I can tell you, he knows instantly when something is out of phase. He'd probably dismiss your out of phase mastering stat as an urban legend.

Pro engineers know a lot more than audiophiles might think generally, let alone about recording in phase. They actually joke about clients whose speakers are out of phase -- I've heard them many times. The implication is always that the client is a novice.

At the beginning of my career as a studio musician, a great engineer (and producer) by the name of Godfrey Diamond came to my house, heard my out of phase speakers and snorted gleefully. He switched my speaker wire ends hurriedly and told me how to listen for the problem.

How to tell if your speakers are out of phase? They have a rather boxy ventriloquist sound, as if the music's coming from behind you. Think of your music, gutted and emanating from a shoebox turned toward the wall.

[Edit: For a look at Howie's resume and room, click here.]

 

[FalconP]

Quote:

Originally posted by daniel422 I've heard that 50% number before as well. Apparently phase isn't paid attention too much in the mastering process.

Worse than that -- in mult-track recordings, some of the tracks may be in one phase while some are in the other, so the final mix is all scrambled up.

I, for one, cannot hear a difference as I fiddles around the phase button on my Resolution Audio CD player.

 

[princeclassic]

scrypt...

are you talking about having your speakers out of phase with eachother....or having both of them wired the same but out of phase with the "in phase" recording?

 

[pedxing]

I wonder if anyone has released a professinal recording on CD with the left and right channels out-of-phase of each other by accident? That would be horrible.

 

[scrypt]

Quote:

Originally posted by princeclassic scrypt... are you talking about having your speakers out of phase with eachother....or having both of them wired the same but out of phase with the "in phase" recording?

Two different issues (the latter tangent ending in extra advice for any new enthusiasts who might be reading), the underlying point being that professional engineers listen routinely for precisely the issues that audiophiles, wanting to feel superior to engineers for Boris Karloff Putin Rasputin Lycanputz knows what reason, claim they miss. Note my opening comment: "He (Howie) knows when *things* are out of phase."

Really, the next thing I'll hear is that 50% of classical composers make voice leading mistakes that have to be [polyphony] corrected by special software in a $15,000 CD player.

(Which isn't to say I'm dissing the sound of Radrd's new player, by the bye.)