[firefly89]

this is probably a daft question- but are these headphones any good without an amp ?

I would love a pair, but £5 a week pocket money i hardly going to cover the phones, let alone an amp- Are they any good with a DIY cMoy ?

Anyway, what am I saying- i've just baught a pair of recables k81's- I should be happy

 

[ken36]

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenratiophi /img/forum/go_quote.gif The K701 famously need a looong burn-in. Play some pink noise or just music through it for a few days.

I'm Compelled to jump in here, I might be sorry. No controversy is intended.

My experience with the K701 headphone is that they are ready right out of the Box. Break-in is in the ear of the beholder. The stock cable can be easily re-terminated to a balanced XLR configuration and in my opinion the stock cable deserves a long listen before you go and purchase an expensive cable

 

[tomjtx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken36 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm Compelled to jump in here, I might be sorry. No controversy is intended. My experience with the K701 headphone is that they are ready right out of the Box. Break-in is in the ear of the beholder. The stock cable can be easily re-terminated to a balanced XLR configuration and in my opinion the stock cable deserves a long listen before you go and purchase an expensive cable

Ken, I completely agree with you on the stock cable, I would want to think long and hard about recabling especially since the 701 cable is already balanced and just needs a retermination.

I do disagree on break in ,however. I like to use the term break in for speakers, headphones and instruments as opposed to burn in for electronics.

I think both speakers and headphones have moving parts that benefit from break in just as do many musical instruments.
This is not the same as electronics burn in which is more controversial.
I do think it is possible that burn in (as opposed to break in) is at least partly a result of brain burn in, the brain getting used to decoding the presentation of a new component.

I have noticed a very big difference in the 701 with break in (not burn in).

Anyway , I am not looking for controversy either but I just wanted to clarify my thoughts on break in as opposed to burn in.

 

[ounkchicago]

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefly89 /img/forum/go_quote.gif this is probably a daft question- but are these headphones any good without an amp ?

I do not recommend using these phones without an amp. They will work but they won't sound like $250-$300 phones. They will sound more like $50 phones and their balance will be all messed up.

 

[ounkchicago]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken36 /img/forum/go_quote.gif My experience with the K701 headphone is that they are ready right out of the Box. Break-in is in the ear of the beholder.

While I agree that break-in is subjective, I disagree that they are ready right out of the box. I burned in my K701 for about 2 weeks nonstop to achieve the 300 or so hours of break-in, and listened to them for about 30 minutes each day. They sounded absolutely terrible on Day 1, so much so that I was thinking about returning them. But that was okay because by about the 100 hour mark they showed marked improvement.

Not all headphones need much of a burn-in. For example, my Grado SR-225 hardly needed any burn-in at all. They changed only very slightly over the 24 hour break-in period that I gave them. Because this change is slight, burn-in skeptics may disagree that they changed at all, because the difference may fall under the threshold of noticeable difference. But in the case of the K701, a large majority of owners notice a drastic difference between when the can is new and when it has 300 hour mark. We may not be able to distinguish among finer gradations (say, the difference between the 25 hour mark and the 50 hour mark), but overall burn-in has a huge impact on these phones.

 

[gaijin]

However much burnin in you put on them, the K701 will never sound like HD650. They do not have as much bass, and are less involving phones.

 

[ounkchicago]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomjtx /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think both speakers and headphones have moving parts that benefit from break in just as do many musical instruments. This is not the same as electronics burn in which is more controversial. I do think it is possible that burn in (as opposed to break in) is at least partly a result of brain burn in, the brain getting used to decoding the presentation of a new component.

I guess what we call it may be a stumbling block for some of us, but break-in and burn-in are definitely real, and are sometimes noted in the manufacturer's product documentation. Obviously, break-in for anything with moving parts (like headphones and speakers) is bound to be more noticeable than burn-in for electronics.

Also, it is probably true (just from common sense and a basic understanding of the way the human mind works) that there is some "brain burn-in" in the sense that we get used to the sound signature of a headphone or amp, and it begins to sound subjectively different to us. However, I would also note that this "brain burn-in" is distinct from the real break-in and burn-in effects.

When a person purchases a headphone or amp, they listen to it over a period of time, and claim the sound changes from Time 1 to Time 2 to Time 3, etc. Therefore the effects of actual break-in/burn-in are confounded with the "brain burn-in" described above. If you really wanted to test this while controlling for brain burn-in, you could use a blind listening test, where different people listened to the equipment at different points in time. For example, Tester #1 listens to the phone at Time 1 and writes down his impressions. Then Tester #2 listens to the phone at Time 2 and writes down what she thinks about the phones, and so on and so forth. This would control for the "brain burn-in" and any differences you would see thereafter are a result of real changes in the equipment.

 

[m11a1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ounkchicago /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, it is probably true (just from common sense and a basic understanding of the way the human mind works) that there is some "brain burn-in" in the sense that we get used to the sound signature of a headphone or amp, and it begins to sound subjectively different to us. However, I would also note that this "brain burn-in" is distinct from the real break-in and burn-in effects. When a person purchases a headphone or amp, they listen to it over a period of time, and claim the sound changes from Time 1 to Time 2 to Time 3, etc. Therefore the effects of actual break-in/burn-in are confounded with the "brain burn-in" described above. If you really wanted to test this while controlling for brain burn-in, you could use a blind listening test, where different people listened to the equipment at different points in time. For example, Tester #1 listens to the phone at Time 1 and writes down his impressions. Then Tester #2 listens to the phone at Time 2 and writes down what she thinks about the phones, and so on and so forth. This would control for the "brain burn-in" and any differences you would see thereafter are a result of real changes in the equipment.

I don't think this is true because I went to a high-end audio shop and the manager there handed me two K701s, one had 50 hour burned in and the other had 600 hour burned in. There was a noticeable difference in bass.

And, yea, you guys are right, the K701 stock cables are balanced. So, it's possible for me to then split that cable into two and rewire them with dual XLR connectors? ..... I swear, I tried to find the guide or anything close to that, can someone please find a thread/article for me on that?

Thanks!!!!

 

[ounkchicago]

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11a1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think this is true because I went to a high-end audio shop and the manager there handed me two K701s, one had 50 hour burned in and the other had 600 hour burned in. There was a noticeable difference in bass. Thanks!!!!

Wait... I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I believe break-in and burn-in are very real. Huge differences up until 150 hours, smaller differences up until 300-400 hours.

In the above I was just trying to disentangle actual break-in/burn-in with the psychological aspect of getting used to a phone/amp.

 

[m11a1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ounkchicago /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wait... I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I believe break-in and burn-in are very real. Huge differences up until 150 hours, smaller differences up until 300-400 hours. In the above I was just trying to disentangle actual break-in/burn-in with the psychological aspect of getting used to a phone/amp.

oh okay, sorry i did misunderstood what you said.....

Quote:

And, yea, you guys are right, the K701 stock cables are balanced. So, it's possible for me to then split that cable into two and rewire them with dual XLR connectors? ..... I swear, I tried to find the guide or anything close to that, can someone please find a thread/article for me on that?

Anyone?

 

[ounkchicago]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardude /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just got a pair last Friday and have been burning them in since. I agree that the clarity is awesome, but I'm hoping to get a little more bass from them. My other headphones are the Grado 325's, I love the impact that they give. I will save judgement until at least 300 hours per popular opinion. I'm half way there as of midnight tonight. Can't come soon enough for me! Enjoy your new cans!

They will definitely have more bass than they have out of the box, but I also suspect they'll never reach Grado levels of bass impact/quantity. This is just my judgment from comparing SR-225 to K701. I still think K701 has higher bass quality (the bass that is there is tighter and more or less the way I like it), but Grado definitely has more of it to my ears.

 

[ahamric]

There seems to be a lot of folks who are convinced that break-in occurs with the 701's. I will make my own evaluation after I pick up my new pair tonight.

One thing, I went to the AKG forums on their website; someone had posted asking if the 701's needed a lot of break-in. The AKG representative replied that they did not notice any difference after a "break-in" period.

If the manufacturer knows that a set of headphones would improve with break-in, then why wouldn't they advertise this fact? Surely someone willing to spend serious coin on these headphones would be more than willing to break them in over a period of time if it would improve the sound.

 

[ounkchicago]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahamric /img/forum/go_quote.gif There seems to be a lot of folks who are convinced that break-in occurs with the 701's. I will make my own evaluation after I pick up my new pair tonight. One thing, I went to the AKG forums on their website; someone had posted asking if the 701's needed a lot of break-in. The AKG representative replied that they did not notice any difference after a "break-in" period. If the manufacturer knows that a set of headphones would improve with break-in, then why wouldn't they advertise this fact? Surely someone willing to spend serious coin on these headphones would be more than willing to break them in over a period of time if it would improve the sound.

Good question. I suspect that a significant number of K701 owners may have been unaware of the break-in period, which may have caused them to be dissatisfied with the product. With some other products that require roughly 24 hours of break-in to sound "stable," I can understand that the manufacturer may not want to bother with special break-in instructions, as many listeners may not even be able to discern the difference. But I think this is a mistake with the K701, as they seem to take 300-400 hours (from most of the opinions in K701 points, and my own experience supports this) to stabilize.

 

[philodox]

Rather than play pink/white/whatever noise to burn them in, why not try some music?

EDIT: Also, though I am not discounting it completely, this K701 burnin is a little overblown. Wasn't there a test recently where someone compared a pair with an insane amount of hours to a new set and they came out identical?

 

[ahamric]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif EDIT: Also, though I am not discounting it completely, this K701 burnin is a little overblown. Wasn't there a test recently where someone compared a pair with an insane amount of hours to a new set and they came out identical?

I think there were a couple responses on this. Someone said he did a blind test with one of his friends and the friend could tell no difference. The other said he listened at a dealer to a 50-hour vs. 300-hour (or maybe it was more) and noticed a substantial difference.