My HD650's are dead...upgrade advice?
Apr 1, 2012 at 6:13 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 46

IEMCrazy

Longwindeus Supremus
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Posts
1,506
Likes
67
I plugged my HD650s into my Lyr today, and when the relay mute clicked on, I had the volume turned up above "zero", and there must have somehow been still too tremendous a charge at the time the relay clicked.  There was a louder-than-normal pop from the headphones.  When I listened to them, something was just "off about them."   Most of the bass is missing in the left driver seems to be missing entirely, and there's audible buzzing when I turn the volume up.   After more testing, it seems there's some distortion in the right driver as well. 
 
I popped the driver pods, I see no visible damage, but I assume the voice coil separated from the cone somewhat.  They're dead after about 6 years of faithful service, may HD650s are no more
triportsad.gif

 
Now comes the hard part with the prices so inflated on HD650's.  I could see if I could locate drivers somewhere and try to install the pods.  I've heard calling Senn may yield the ability to purchase drivers, or I could send them in for "out of warranty service" which is just unpleasant, and disturbingly expensive.
 
I could buy used replacement HD650s....but at current running prices, it seems an upgrade may be doable.  The two upgrade avenues seem to be HE-500 and HE-4.   The HE-500 would be the most direct route for an upgrade from HD650 with the same mid-centric laid back type signature.
 
On the other hand I've been finding for my most popular genres I favor my K702's over my HD650s.  Given that, would the brighter HE-4 be the more ideal upgrade for me (combined with the reduced weight which would be advantageous...and the smaller price tag doesn't hurt.)    Ironically I got the K702 so as not to get the HE500 and obsolete my HD650s.  In the meantime I use the K702 more than HD650, and am considering an HD650 replacement that that could obsolete the K702....oh well.
 
Anyway, what suggestions to the lot of you have?  HE4 seems rarely mentioned around here for some reason.  Considering it's now actually CHEAPER than HD650, you'd think it would get more love...
 
Apr 1, 2012 at 6:18 PM Post #2 of 46
What Lyr amp blowed your HD650?
 
Apr 1, 2012 at 6:25 PM Post #3 of 46
Buy a Fostex T50rp and mod it, if you're into DIY, plus they're really easy to mod, and the cans and modding materials cost about 100$, and they'll take about 25 hours, but they'll be the last cans you'll ever buy.
 
Apr 1, 2012 at 6:28 PM Post #4 of 46
I'd contact Sennheiser and inquire about the cost of replacement drivers before moving onto the next step.  I'm sure they might offer you some discount, or assist you in some way.  Good luck !!
 
Apr 1, 2012 at 7:01 PM Post #5 of 46
they died by themselves in their headphone sleep?
 
Apr 1, 2012 at 7:05 PM Post #6 of 46
I've had a set of HD 545s for over twenty years. They sound just as good as the "replacement" set of headphones I bought a few weeks ago. Like wje said the cost might not be like buying a new pair. Then again it might be a good time to move onward and upward.
 
Apr 1, 2012 at 7:18 PM Post #7 of 46
No, they died during amp powerup after the relay closed.  The relay is supposed to prevent this surge by cutting the circuit for 30 seconds after powerup, but with the cans plugged in and a non zero volume on the dial, i guess there was still too much power available after the 30 second delay.  Im assuming that having the volume at zero for another 30 or 60 secomds would have prevented it.
 
Great suggestions so far, everyone!  i'll cntinue following the suggestions, including specific advise on the HE  odels!
 
Apr 1, 2012 at 7:22 PM Post #8 of 46
It's a long shot, but can you try them on something else? It's always possible that something went wrong with the amp..
 
Apr 1, 2012 at 7:27 PM Post #9 of 46
Sounds like something went wrong with the amp anyways. A Lyr shouldn't kill a pair of headphones. You should probably get Jason to RMA your Lyr to check it over.

And I would go LCD2 if you loved your HD650.
 
Apr 1, 2012 at 9:20 PM Post #10 of 46


Quote:
Sounds like something went wrong with the amp anyways. A Lyr shouldn't kill a pair of headphones. You should probably get Jason to RMA your Lyr to check it over.
And I would go LCD2 if you loved your HD650.



 
To answer Zombie's question, yes, I have two Lyrs, same effect on both.  Also my K702s are fine on both amps.
 
To answer your question, I agree, there may be something wrong with the amp.  Of the two Lyrs, this one allows a "pop" into the headphones most of the time (not entirely uncommon, many members have that, and thus far it's caused no damage...the usual pop is NOT as loud as the one today.)  I changed my pattern today, I plugged in before the relay clicked.  Normally I don't do that, but sometimes I have.  But the big difference is that this was the first time I plugged in before the rrelay AND had the volume at non-zero when the relay clicked.  That I suspect was the culprit.  
 
The relay DID function as it should. It waited 30 seconds from power on before clicking to operational position.  THis behavior was correct.  For some reason on this unit I'm not sure 30 seconds is enough.  
 
I did contact Jason, but I'd prefer not to have to RMA it so I asked him his opinion on if it's fine as long as I make sure to wait longer all the time before plugging and setting volume, or if he thinks leaving it this way is a "ticking time bomb" for any headphones.  I suspect the former is true, since I've had it on for hours since the incident and listened to some great music on the K702 in the meantime.  It's a poweron specific anomaly.  I'm usually very careful about not pluging it in and tempting fate to only the relay anyway, so I'm kind of annoyed with myself over it :)
 
Thanks for the recommendation on LCD2.  I have not heard LCD2 or HE500 in person yet, but from what I've read on both, and my experience with K702 and HD650, as much as I love the 650, if going the ortho route, I don't think LCD2 is on my short list.  Between it and HE500, the descriptions of the HE500 sound more to my liking....wider soundstage, and just a bit brighter than 650.  Certain descritptions of HE4 also sound to my liking, though they're admittedly entirely different from HD50 and more like K702
 
Apr 1, 2012 at 9:25 PM Post #11 of 46
@OP, the HE-4 is rarely mentioned here because they have been discontinued, and HE-400's have been released which are much better and just as affordable. However they are not as mid-centric as HE-500's, has a more pronounced bass mostly. Some call HE-500's a bit bass-light so this difference might actually be considered more balanced by them.
 
Not many impressions directly comparing HD650's against HE-400's yet though, the only one I've seen praises HD650's for the smooth laid-back mids and the HE-400's for the deeper, much less rolled-off bass.
 
Apr 2, 2012 at 4:06 AM Post #12 of 46
You might be able to locate a pair of HE-5LE by HifiMAN for a not-so-bad price.  To my ears, they are lovely, detailed, but relaxed enough that one can easily hear the music separation.  There are some differences between the sound of the HE-500 and the HE-5LE that have been noted in the various threads, here.  I personally haven't heard the HE-500s.  However, for me to make the conversion from the HE-5LE to the HE-500s, it would run close to $300.  It's not an expense I'd like to have the challenge of right now, especially since I haven't heard the HE-500 before.  
 
Apr 2, 2012 at 4:22 AM Post #13 of 46
I found the following read that was originally posted on Headfonia.Com -- It's an article splitting out the differences between the HE-300 (Dynamic Driver) and the HE-500 (Ortho driver).  However, in the article, there are some comparisons to the HD-650, too, which might shed some light on your search experience.
 
 
 
[size=medium] This is certainly one of the most interesting Hifiman headphones around, and definitely has more to it than just being the entry level model.[/size]
[size=medium]  [/size]
[size=medium] The full size dynamic driver category is a crowded place. Every brand has put their best efforts in the arena and yet I have yet to find one full size that can be a master-of-all genres, a true all-rounder headphone with good sound and musicality. And while the fairy young Hifiman brand is not going to eclipse the technology that we find in Beyerdynamic’s Tesla driver or Sennheiser’s Ring-shaped driver anytime soon, through careful tuning, they may have produced one of the best all rounder dynamic driver I’ve seen. Name all the best dynamic drivers you can think of, from the HD800, the T1, the W5000, the AD2000, the Edition 8/9/10, the Grados, the AKGs, and tell me if any of them has a good genre bandwith. Nope, none. They are all highly polarized headphones. It’s quite surprising therefore, to find a young brand such as Hifiman producing a superb all rounder while still managing to sound pretty high end.[/size]
[size=medium]
A dynamic driver! While I suspect that one of the reason for the dynamic driver is cost, on the other hand the dynamic driver also does things that you don’t quite get in the planar, orthodynamic based models. Yes, the transients is the first thing that you’d notice to be different from the bigger Hifimans, even to the HE-4. But on the other hand, the dynamic driver in the HE-300 is so superbly tuned that it gives me a more relaxed sound, and is easier on the ears than what I hear on the planar models.
[/size]
 
GENERAL SOUND IMPRESSIONS
[size=medium]  [/size]
[size=medium] Let’s start with the tonal balance. This is definitely the warmest sounding Hifiman so far. Take the Hifiman HE-500 and bring up the warmth even more. Tone down the treble a little bit, keep almost the same smooth midrange that everyone seem to love with the HE-500, add a little more bass body. The end result sounds like what I would’ve liked Sennheiser do with the HD650: a less sleepy HD650 with more engaging sound without loosing its cool and relaxed presentation. Cleaner mids and lows, still weighty, and without the slow bass and the “veil”. Ultimately it still can’t replace HD650′s low end impact, but the HE-300′s faster and clearer bass will probably be better for a lot of people, me included. The pace is definitely faster than the HD650, though overall it’s still a fairly laid-back music listening device.[/size]
 
HE-300 vs HE-500
[size=medium]  [/size]
[size=medium] Same brand, two different driver technologies, tuned and created at about the same time and probably by the same engineers. How will the two differ? A-Bing between the HE-300 and the HE-500, first and foremost you’ll notice that the HE-500 has a significantly clearer sound. I also notice that the planar’s transients is quicker overall and that the dynamic’s is more laggy, yet the dynamic has a better sense of coherence from top to bottom frequencies — and that’s something that I regard very highly.[/size]
[size=medium] The planar driver clearly had what it takes to earn the higher model number (and price). While I do think that the HE-500 does excel in the clarity of the treble and bass region more than the HE-300, I actually feel that the overall impression of clarity may be largely due to the significantly more treble presence in the HE-500. The mids of the HE-500 has been known to be very special, but in that region I feel that the HE-300 was able to better it, though with a slightly different tone due to its dynamic drivers. The mids are slightly darker, and yet just as clear sounding and even more it has a deeper depth in the mids that I don’t hear from the HE-500′s midrange. The mids are definitely warmer in the HE-300, and the mids have a better dimension and flow to it than the HE-500′s does. Moving down to the bass, the HE-300 again sound weightier on the lows, warmer and more inviting, though with slower transients than the HE-500′s bass.[/size]
[size=medium]  [/size]
[size=medium] So, while in one hand the clearer sound, the more open soundstage, and the faster transients of the HE-500 clearly state that it deserves the higher price tag, on the other hand the HE-300 remains to have a unique voice by itself that I really don’t think it should be seen as inferior to the HE-500 (well, maybe a little bit). But compared to the HE-5 and the HE-4 models, I do think that the HE-300 is a far more likable headphone, purely based on the tonal balance.[/size]
[size=medium] If you look at it from a certain angle, you can sort of see the circular rings that mark the dynamic driver. Photograph intentionally defocused to show the effect.
[/size]
[size=medium]  
Open the grille and you'll find just a plain old dynamic driver, yet it sounds very very musical.
[/size]
 
BUILD AND ERGONOMICS
[size=medium]  [/size]
[size=medium] The use of the dynamics driver also brings down the weight of the headphones considerably, and the HE-300 is really the most comfortable Hifiman headphone. I never really think much of the pads that Hifiman uses in their headphones, but without the weight of the planar magnets hanging down the headband, the pads now feels very comfortable, again similar to the comfort of HD650′s pads but without the Sennheiser death grip sensation.[/size]
[size=medium]  [/size]
[size=medium] Build quality is a bit on the lower side, like you can tell that this is a lower end model to the HE-500 or HE-6 that I happen to have around. Although from a distance the silver housing and black grill does make it look like the latest $5,000 Stax flagship model. In all seriousness though, I do think that the impression of a lower build quality is largely based on the quality of the paint finish on the housing, while the construction of the headphone remains just as solid as the higher end models.[/size]
 
END WORDS
[size=medium]  [/size]
[size=medium] There is no denying that Hifiman is getting better with each headphone they release, and that they are doing it at a very speedy pace. When the first Hifiman headphone was released, the HE-5 was very impressive and yet it was quite edgy and in the long run turned out to be a difficult headphone to live with. With each subsequent release, however, I think the voicing of the Hifiman headphones have become more and more matured. The HE-5LE to the HE-5, the HE-6 flagship, and even the release of the HE-500 though being a lower model to the HE-6, was overall a more mature headphone than the HE-6. And now Hifiman has done it again with the HE-300.[/size]
[size=medium]  [/size]
[size=medium] It’s no technical giant, and the HE-300 is pretty far from the league that the HD-800, T1, LCD-2 and HE-6/500 are playing at. Get over the technicalities, however, and I really think that the musicality aspect can go head to head with the big boys and even beat some of them (the HD800 would be a pretty easy one to beat). The price tag, of course, will make the Hifiman line up more affordable than ever, and if you ask me how it compares to the current line up of ~$300 open-backed headphones, I think the K701/DT880/HD650 trio is facing a very serious threat from the HE-300. The signature is closer to the HD650 than the AKG or the Beyer, but the lighter pace and the slightly more forward presentation makes it a better all rounder than the HD650 is. Pair it with anything from the Burson HA-160 to the ALO Continental, and the result has been nothing short of pure musicality.[/size]

 

 
Original source of article: http://www.headfonia.com/hifiman-he-300-the-dynamic-driver/
 
Apr 2, 2012 at 4:25 AM Post #14 of 46
If I were you, I'll ask Schiit to refund your repairing costs for the HD 650.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top