[cgrums]

Hi all,

I'm very much interested in getting started in the vinyl world, hopefully without spending too much for my first deck. I found both of these on my local CL and am going to probably pick up one of the two. I've read decent things about the Pioneer but know nothing of ADC or vinyl in general. Any comments between the two?

 

[cgrums]

Since both of these turntables were located fairly close to one another I decided to look at not one but both...and ended up buying both.

First the Pioneer PL-518 had for $45:

and the ADC 1600 for $30:

I had the chance to hear the ADC at the sellers house so I know that one is functional. The pioneer appears in working order but I'm unfamiliar with how to properly set the thing up...plus I don't currently own a single record. Looks like I'll be tracking down some proper calibration tools and a few LPs

I know I'll need a stylus pressure gauge, any recommendations as to which? Any pointers for another vinyl noob would be much obliged.

 

[Ingo]

The vinyl revolution has begun. This is going to become a tremendous fad with the youth around here, I can tell.

I like the looks of your Pioneer deck, the arm looks pretty good. It's really not hard to learn to setup your table and such, it just takes a little e-search. I would read the numerous threads about beginner vinyl that have popped up in the past couple of months here. I started a thread a while ago that got a lot of response and there's a lot of good advice from the Head-fi vinyl afficianados.

My Vinyl Thread

 

[Herandu]

You paid U$45 for the Pioneer???? Why don't I run in to such bargains

. That's a top notch TT with outstanding set up accuracy. The arm and its assembly platform is one of the best Japanese fixed arms I know of outside of the super league TT decks and variants such as my PS-6750.
Put that ADC cartridge from the Pioneer on the ADC. Then hunt down a Pioneer MC-3 or MC-5 if you intend to get serious. Other cartridges will of course also be fine.
The mat is not bad, but I used to experience a drop off in bass in the region where the mat has that wide groove leading to the start of a 7 inch single. Might sound crazy, but use the mat upside down as well in order to compare which of the two sounds you like. It's a no-cost tweak.
I'll offer you an extra U$10 for the TT if you are selling

.

The ADC is good. Very good. But lucky for you that you found good and excellent in the same place and the same time. The chances of that happening are far and few between where I live

. The last time I was that luck I was in my teens and was torn between which of two sisters to date.

 

[SK138]

Nice catch!!! I too have two analog systems; one vintage and one pretty modern. Just make sure everything is calibrated and maintained well, put the best cartridge you can afford, put some clean vinyl and enjoy it.

You also need a decent phono pre-amp. It really don't take that much to enjoy vinyl. I just wish new vinyl is cheap as CDs

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgrums /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've read decent things about the Pioneer but know nothing of ADC or vinyl in general. Any comments between the two?

Both nice starter decks as mentioned.

ADC was Audio Dynamics Corporation, which was an American company in the 1970s and early '80s most famous for turntable related things.

That ADC tonearm on the deck is particularly nice (they sold those separately) and they also made good quality cartridges ( bit mounted on the end of the arm with needle that plays the record) as well. Funky early '80s retro styling to boot

First step is to check the condition of the cartridges on both and see if you can find spares. http://www.lpgear.com still have ADC MM (Moving Magnet)carts which are actually a good match for the Pioneer arm as it's quite high mass.

Like Herandu says a MC (moving coil) cart would be a good match for the Pioneer tonearm, but retipping one would be expensive so I'd opt for a Denon 110 which is a good entry level MC. Bear in mind you'll need to find a fairly decent old amp or vintage high end reciever to get an MC phonostage if you go down this route.

I think the ADC arm is low mass so a Shure V15 would be the best high end match for this. Look on Ebay for one, they go for about 50USD and a replacement cart from Jico in Japan is 99 USD. You could also go for a cheaper Shure like the M91/92/95 2nd hand or a brand new M97.

 

[cgrums]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif You paid U$45 for the Pioneer???? Why don't I run in to such bargains . That's a top notch TT with outstanding set up accuracy. The arm and its assembly platform is one of the best Japanese fixed arms I know of outside of the super league TT decks and variants such as my PS-6750. Put that ADC cartridge from the Pioneer on the ADC. Then hunt down a Pioneer MC-3 or MC-5 if you intend to get serious. Other cartridges will of course also be fine. The mat is not bad, but I used to experience a drop off in bass in the region where the mat has that wide groove leading to the start of a 7 inch single. Might sound crazy, but use the mat upside down as well in order to compare which of the two sounds you like. It's a no-cost tweak. I'll offer you an extra U$10 for the TT if you are selling . The ADC is good. Very good. But lucky for you that you found good and excellent in the same place and the same time. The chances of that happening are far and few between where I live . The last time I was that luck I was in my teens and was torn between which of two sisters to date.

You'll be first in line if I find this format isn't for me

 

[cgrums]

What should I be looking for to tell if the cartridges are in good shape?

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgrums /img/forum/go_quote.gif What should I be looking for to tell if the cartridges are in good shape?

A stylus magnifier. Mind you, any powerful enough magnifier could do the trick. Still, it takes a good amount of knowledge to tell the difference. Playing a record is a good way. A straight cantilever is also required. Other than that, the input of someone you know who used to play records and is older than 45 would be just as valuable.

 

[memepool]

On the whole unless you know someone who offers stylus inspection as a service (TTVJ?) then I would just replace the stylus if you can get one a reasonable price or the whole cart otherwise. 40-50 USD upwards today buys you a reasonable cart like the Grado black or if you have a high mass arm the ADC cart I mentioned.

 

[cgrums]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif On the whole unless you know someone who offers stylus inspection as a service (TTVJ?) then I would just replace the stylus if you can get one a reasonable price or the whole cart otherwise. 40-50 USD upwards today buys you a reasonable cart like the Grado black or if you have a high mass arm the ADC cart I mentioned.

I think I'll look into replacing both carts. I'm also very curious to look into building a tube line stage for each deck. From what I've been reading the MM preamps are different than the MC preamps...no?

 

[Herandu]

Yep, MM and MC are different Get a TC-760LC MM/MC preamp from such likes as Phonopreamp. Cheap enough, but high in technology. I have seen the circuit diagram...

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgrums /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I'll look into replacing both carts. I'm also very curious to look into building a tube line stage for each deck. From what I've been reading the MM preamps are different than the MC preamps...no?

MC needs more gain than MM basically but the better stages allow you to change things like capacitance too.

I checked into the ADC tonearm on your deck and it's very low mass indeed at 6gms like an Infinity Black Widow. So there is the opposite issue of finding a very high compliance cart. The best one you can get for this is probably a 2nd hand Shure v15 and then fit a brand new JICO SAS stylus.

You would also be able to use a Bang and Olufsen cart if you buy one for your other deck as they were designed for ultra low mass arms.

Assuming the ADC arm has a standard Ortofon/SME mount detachable headshell you can get a B&O headshell adaptor from a B&O dealer in Germany called hifistudio9 (on Ebay) for 10USD.

Another idea maybe would be to see if you can swop the Pioneer and ADC headshells around which would give you two medium mass arms and therefore considerably widen your cartridge choices.

You have lots of scope for Mass / Compliance related shennanigans any road...

 

[cgrums]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif MC needs more gain than MM basically but the better stages allow you to change things like capacitance too. I checked into the ADC tonearm on your deck and it's very low mass indeed at 6gms like an Infinity Black Widow. So there is the opposite issue of finding a very high compliance cart. The best one you can get for this is probably a 2nd hand Shure v15 and then fit a brand new JICO SAS stylus. You would also be able to use a Bang and Olufsen cart if you buy one for your other deck as they were designed for ultra low mass arms. Assuming the ADC arm has a standard Ortofon/SME mount detachable headshell you can get a B&O headshell adaptor from a B&O dealer in Germany called hifistudio9 (on Ebay) for 10USD. Another idea maybe would be to see if you can swop the Pioneer and ADC headshells around which would give you two medium mass arms and therefore considerably widen your cartridge choices. You have lots of scope for Mass / Compliance related shennanigans any road...

Great info. Would you recommend any resources as to how one goes about pairing tonearms / carts / styli etc...?

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgrums /img/forum/go_quote.gif Great info. Would you recommend any resources as to how one goes about pairing tonearms / carts / styli etc...?

good intro for overall set-up
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/ttsetup.html


generally useful overviews

http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ttcartridge.html
http://www.theanalogdept.com/cartrid...m_matching.htm
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/how...cartridge.html

more specific resources but incomplete (works in progress)

http://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_database.shtml

http://www.cartridgedb.com/

useful calculator

http://www.audiotic.com/T&TSetup/T&TSetupFS.htm