[Meejay]

I also found out that changing the ear tips change the tonal balance massively.

From my experience, U12t needs to be snug in your concha so the tube is deep in your ear canal. I needed a lot of tip rolling to find best fit. Some were disastrous!
I think it has something to do with TIA driver that's in the tube itself. Driver needs to be as close to ear drums as possible or it will negatively affect treble (maybe that's the issue for you?).
TIA's purpose is to give that special airy feel in the upper-treble frequencies. I speculate bad fit can shift those frequencies to lower frequencies and/or cause unwanted resonances.

 

[Fargeg]

-snip-

 

[martel80]

From my experience, U12t needs to be snug in your concha so the tube is deep in your ear canal. I needed a lot of tip rolling to find best fit. Some were disastrous!
I think it has something to do with TIA driver that's in the tube itself. Driver needs to be as close to ear drums as possible or it will negatively affect treble (maybe that's the issue for you?).
TIA's purpose is to give that special airy feel in the upper-treble frequencies. I speculate bad fit can shift those frequencies to lower frequencies and/or cause unwanted resonances.

That's also my experience. But I can also say that by doing so, it increases the amount of low mids.
I think there's a in-between possible here and I hope that the custom ear tip will provide that.

 

[Zaghamkarim]

It's good to hear the issue was somewhat resolved by change of cable - yes the cable can be an issue with iem's. Do keep a spare as they can need replacing after a while (designed for lightness and less weight on ears). I'm an in ear monitor guy, there is a lot to learn in this hobby - similar to the headphone hobby. There are different use cases for iem's, the U12T seems more for onstage performers trying to judge their vocals against a mix - most notably the bass (as at a concert that is what they have to compete against). They are by no means neutral. On stage performers might really like and promote these and in cases - audiophiles (your high end music enjoyers) like that flavour and recommend it to others. Most don't really enjoy neutral when listening to music outside of professional use.

The U12T have more bass and less treble, against other more rounded sets like the $20 7hz zero and moondrop chu or the pricier set from Elysian the Diva.

What does help is demoing iem's or looking at graphs to see how they perform. In this case, the bass is more dominant (average means average of all modes/ changes in Modules).

What I would recommend if you end up selling the U12T due to a different use case - is reaching out to Ultimate Ears and asking for a demo of the UE Reference Remastered (an iem built for this use case) - I like UE for their customer service and heavily recommend getting a custom moulded iem (ciem) as it really helps avoid fit issues and variation in sound, so go with a brand that offers this.

Pro tip; look for iem's branded as reference.

Alternatively you can look for a set that has a more even distribution (graph) as a universal set and see what you can try in person.

Hope this helps!

 

[KinGensai]

My two recommendations for closer to reference sets. IMO Blessing 2 is closer to Diffuse Field target than Oracle, but both are very competent.

WARNING: Oracle mk2 is very different, I'm talking specifically about the original Oracle.

 

[LFC_SL]

Observations:

- this just shows do not blind buy and not at 2k. This could have been anyone, it just happens to be 64. "Reference" only ever means "reference to the individual listener's ears"

- 64 are doing something right for some given their huge roster of professionals and also non-professional buyers

- the contract and thus after sales support is with the local retailer, this was not a direct sale

- this might just be the shortfall of written online posts and trying to read the tone, if these forum posts are in the context of "trying to help", then what of the emails to 64?!

Just try to return for a refund with the retailer, minimise the restocking fee and move on. The only real takeaway is try not to blind buy, particularly if you have access to the many, many audio retailers in NY

 

[martel80]

As the old saying goes: ''you can bring a donkey to the lake but you cant force him to drink.''

Find all the excuses that you want, the outcome and resulting of that specific product and service received was subpar. Point blank.

Still not sure who's from NY nor if you actually read the part where the Manufacturer and distributor said they are not taking it back BEFORE I received the product (nor read the actual post for that matter given the out of touch of the facts that were described here).

Just a tad out of the reality of what actually happened here. And that's to stay polite.

 

[KinGensai]

Observations:

- this just shows do not blind buy and not at 2k. This could have been anyone, it just happens to be 64. "Reference" only ever means "reference to the individual listener's ears"

- 64 are doing something right for some given their huge roster of professionals and also non-professional buyers

- the contract and thus after sales support is with the local retailer, this was not a direct sale

- this might just be the shortfall of written online posts and trying to read the tone, if these forum posts are in the context of "trying to help", then what of the emails to 64?!

Just try to return for a refund with the retailer, minimise the restocking fee and move on. The only real takeaway is try not to blind buy, particularly if you have access to the many, many audio retailers in NY

I generally agree with you, but I'm not sure your judgement on the term "reference" is an accurate assessment.

Certainly, sound dips very heavily into the realm of the subjective given individual variances in both physical characteristics like pinna and canal shape and differences in sensual heuristics informed by innate and learned neurological differences, but this is all in reference to merely considerations of reality, which makes up half the equation. The actuality of the kinetic energy that makes up the sound does not change separated from the observing consciousness, thus having immutable and independently verifiable characteristics.

The idea of "reference" audio gear is to recreate the actuality of the phenomenon of sound as accurately as possible, and due to the reality of sound, becomes less feasible the more variables have to be considered. Due to this, audio engineers tend to master on studio monitors in a room to eliminate as many variables as possible.

The closer we get to our head, the more variables must be introduced to reproduce said sound faithfully to the actual sound, thus compromising the ability of headphones and especially IEMs to produce faithful representations of sound.

So I contend that the term "reference" does have a concrete definition and utility to us as audio hobbyists and especially professionals.

 

[LFC_SL]

I generally agree with you, but I'm not sure your judgement on the term "reference" is an accurate assessment.

Certainly, sound dips very heavily into the realm of the subjective given individual variances in both physical characteristics like pinna and canal shape and differences in sensual heuristics informed by innate and learned neurological differences, but this is all in reference to merely considerations of reality, which makes up half the equation. The actuality of the kinetic energy that makes up the sound does not change separated from the observing consciousness, thus having immutable and independently verifiable characteristics.

The idea of "reference" audio gear is to recreate the actuality of the phenomenon of sound as accurately as possible, and due to the reality of sound, becomes less feasible the more variables have to be considered. Due to this, audio engineers tend to master on studio monitors in a room to eliminate as many variables as possible.

The closer we get to our head, the more variables must be introduced to reproduce said sound faithfully to the actual sound, thus compromising the ability of headphones and especially IEMs to produce faithful representations of sound.

So I contend that the term "reference" does have a concrete definition and utility to us as audio hobbyists and especially professionals.

I think we are mostly on the same page. This is unlikely the time to get into target preferences curves and research. The bottom line is the OP spent 2k and is dissatisfied. The takeaway is demo and do not blind buy. One small point the OP refers to the "flagship" - the U/A12T is not strictly the 64A flagship, not to overlook it is still a lot of money. No product gets 100% ratings. Not everyone likes the U12T and this thread is not communicating a unique opinion. It might only be newsworthy as not many have the disposable income to buy at this price point without a demo. OP just needs to return or sell it and move on, keep it simple

 

[martel80]

Sometime life give us the proof that you can't teach proper reading nor reasoning to some people. Even if you show them around the wall, they will still continue to headbutt the wall.
Insanity, probably but not to be pissed at.
As it was said for the 5th time in this thread, the manufacturer and the retailer will not accept return and that was said even Before receiving the product while the product was in transit.
It's like talking to a wall. A total lost of time.
But who can really be mad at a fish for being unable to climb a tree!?

 

[LFC_SL]

Just sell and move on. That is the one advantage of universal iem over custom iem. The attempt to flex on the internet is unbecoming. Spending a couple of grand without demo and regretting the outcome has no impact on anyone at all

 

[maynardewm]

So what I did is I applied a good amount of pressure on the ear buds to keep them enter further in and kept applying a pressure and there it was !!!

All became full and well represented.

Ahh… I remember reading this review (Day 1) a few weeks ago thinking “I’d be willing to be he just hasn’t found the right ear tips yet” especially since this was your first experience with IEMs. They just have a learning curve compared to headphones. It takes me a good week or so to “figure out” a new IEM; best ear tips, best module, best position inside the ear, etc. Unlike headphones where you kind of just plop them on and that’s that. I’ve found the CP145 Spin Fits to be my favorite with the U12T… everyone’s going to be different; what might be best for me may not be best for you.