[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbirkett In terms of detail yes headphones win, but in terms of sheer musicality speakers will ALWAYS sound better than headphones, and no disrespect, but anyone who thinks otherwise has not heard good speakers.

You know, if you had just posted about why you prefer your speakers after your foray into headphones I would have just ignored you or maybe even discussed it with you, but among the other assinine B.S. you posted here and in your other thread, to suggest that because I prefer headphones I haven't heard good speakers is just about the most arrogant, self-righteous crap I've read on this board.

Off the top of my head and nowhere near a complete list, I've heard and spent time with various speaker models from:

Totem
PSB
Paradigm
Canton
Mirage
NHT
NEAR
Martin Logan
Magnepan
Quad
B&W
Kef
Linn
Castle
Dunlavy
ProAc
JMLabs
Acarion
Monitor Audio
Wilson - both Watt/Puppy and Grand Slamms

As well I worked with Swans Speaker Systems when they were still an independant company building high-end speakers for SET amps.

Some of these I've owned and others I've spent a great deal of time with either when I worked in an audio store or through other audiophile friends while others I've only auditioned but was able to get a fair idea of their qualities.

So I think I've heard my fair share of good speakers, in fact I've probably heard far more than you'll ever hear, and each speaker based system I've listened to has left me wanting for something. It wasn't until I stumbled upon high-end headphones a few years ago that I found my audio nirvana. Just because you have found you prefer speakers does not give you the right to make judgements on the validity of headphones and those who prefer them. These are just your opinions so don't you dare presume to make them absolutes.

In fact I fail to see the point of you posting this type of thing in an online forum designed for people who love headphones? It's akin to someone going into a sci-fi forum and saying all star trek/star wars/X-Files, etc. fans are idiots who don't have a clue what a good movie really is until they've watched Fried Green Tomatoes or some crap. Your not looking for discussion with comments like these, your trolling for a flamewar.

 

[ampgalore]

Elnero, of all the speakers you have heard, which ones did you like the best? I haven't heard that many high end speakers.

 

[raif]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero It's akin to someone going into a sci-fi forum and saying all star trek/star wars/X-Files, etc. fans are idiots who don't have a clue what a good movie really is until they've watched Fried Green Tomatoes or some crap.

This is the first time I have ever laughed out loud at any post that wasn't redshifter's. Hilarious.

As for the pbirkett thing, don't sweat it he is just a little bitter right now for having owned the cd3k. Once he buys the DAC 1 -> rs-1 combo he will be back in the love again.

EDIT/P.S. By the way, I am not posting my opinion on the dt531 as it would violate exactly what elnero was talking about.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampgalore Elnero, of all the speakers you have heard, which ones did you like the best? I haven't heard that many high end speakers.

I'd love to know as well, though I won't have the money for big-time speakers for a while. I'm sure it also comes down to a matter of synergy...

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampgalore Elnero, of all the speakers you have heard, which ones did you like the best? I haven't heard that many high end speakers.

That would be a tough call, I have different tastes than alot of people. The Grand Slamms are an impressive speaker and well they should be at about $80,000 per pair but I personally don't like them all that much. They're just not my cup of tea.

When I worked at Swans we were working on a prototype that never made the light of day which had a powered sub that would allow a SET amp to much more easily handle just the mids and highs. It was a superb speaker using Focal drivers and a Raven ribbon tweeter. Also the Swans I owned up until recently were a wonderful sounding speaker. They sounded great with just about anything but really shined when given good associated equipment. My problem was I could never afford to put the gear behind them to make them sing like I knew they could. My headphone rig altogether would only come to about half of what I would consider the minimum I would want to invest in an amp for them.

A speaker designed by Joe D'Appolito that I heard at his house when I stayed with him once was also one of my fav's. Maybe not exactly up there with some of the higher end stuff I've heard but these things were just amazing. They were a transmission line design so even though they were a reasonably sized speaker on stands they reached down to the low 20's with authority. The tweeter and mids were inverted ceramic Accutons that have a sweet detailed nature about them. Maybe my memory of them is overly romantasizing them but I really fell in love with them during the limited time I spent there.

In reality when you get into the higher end of speakers it's much like high end headphones, they are all excellent, it's just a matter of personal preference. The best thing I can say is for you to audition as many as you can. Knowing a bit about your preferences I might suggest looking at an electrostatic like Martin Logans.

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero When I worked at Swans we were working on a prototype that never made the light of day which had a powered sub that would allow a SET amp to much more easily handle just the mids and highs. It was a superb speaker using Focal drivers and a Raven ribbon tweeter...My problem was I could never afford to put the gear behind them to make them sing like I knew they could.

Oh man, there goes my fantasy that people who worked in the audio industry somehow got deals that made it possible for them to afford this stuff.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ampgalore Elnero, of all the speakers you have heard, which ones did you like the best? I haven't heard that many high end speakers.

How about, of all the speakers you've heard, what would you say are some of the best value? Speakers that, by all rights, should cost a lot more than their retail price...giant killers...great hi-fi for us reg'ler folk.

Thanks!

 

[Budley007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbirkett I agree headphones have their place though, and the dt531 definitely suits me. You can consider me retired from this hobby now, probably for good, unless something unexpected happens. I have other hobbies now, which are certainly more deserving to my attention nowadays.

Your new hobby? Uummmmmmmmmmm...trolling perhaps?

Okay...cheapshot - J/K

I honestly can't afford a speakers/amp setup that sound as good as my headphone rig. I'm sure there's one out there, but the speakers I've auditioned in my budget have convinced me that I'd need a whole lot more moola. Portability is another big plus for me as well.

For what it's worth, I still love my DT531s. I'm listening to Natalie Merchant right now...MAN!, I love this synergy with the SHA-1.

PS. I ain't selling the DT531s, Ampgalore. You'll have to buy em from someone else.

 

[Anders]

Iron_Dreamer, thanks for your review that in an interesting way related DT531 to the quality of the playback chain. I did a search on DT531 a short time ago and found that nearly all about it was written by a few persons. Your addition is very helpful.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarke68 Oh man, there goes my fantasy that people who worked in the audio industry somehow got deals that made it possible for them to afford this stuff. How about, of all the speakers you've heard, what would you say are some of the best value? Speakers that, by all rights, should cost a lot more than their retail price...giant killers...great hi-fi for us reg'ler folk. Thanks!

Heh, well I did get a pretty good deal on the speakers but I bought them after I left the company just before going back to school so I didn't have much money to cash in other such deals I may have been able to get being in the industry so to speak.

Well I haven’t really been involved in the whole high-end audio market now for quite a few years. I let my audio bug wane for a few years and it was headphones that brought me back so my main focus has been there.

When I sold my Swans recently I took most of the money and invested it into my headphone system but I still needed a budget replacement for my speakers. Having settled on PEI one of the main drawbacks is a lack of selection for many products especially audio related. I did a bit of listening where I could and quite a bit of research on the internet so I’ll try to share what I found.

I was mainly looking for bookshelf speakers or very small floorstanders because one of the main reasons for my selling the Swans was a lack of space in our new home. Part of my thinking was to buy bookshelf speakers with the intention of eventually building a home theatre system around them. I ended up buying Paradigm Atoms because they were so inexpensive, I could buy them locally, I could build around them and it’s truly amazing what these little tykes can do for such little money.

Axiom was another company that topped my list. Purchasing online makes them appear to be great value for the dollar. They are also another manufacturer that would allow me to start small and build it into a nice home theatre setup down the line. The in home trial period was also a serious draw.

Other manufacturers I was considering for going the route of building a home theatre setup down the line were PSB, Onix Rocket, Athena and Ascend with Ascend topping that group.

If looking at strictly two channel hi-fi the new Epos ELS3 topped my list and I may have gone that route if I had been willing to spend a bit more. From all I’ve heard about these speakers they are supposed to be something special.

Another that was high on my list for strictly two channel was JMLabs, from the models I’ve had the chance to audition I would say they seem to have some decent offerings no matter what price range your looking at.

Another few that were particularly intriguing were Omega’s, Moth Cicada’s and Buggtussel Circa’s. For some reason these strike me as being a little more truly budget hi-fi. You know what I mean, the not so mainstream stuff, those hidden gems that may pay off big by taking a chance on them. The Omega’s particularly intrigued me because of my love for SET amps and their unique design.

Well that's all I can think of right now. It's not really what you were looking for necessarily but I hope it helps anyway.

 

[pbirkett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero You know, if you had just posted about why you prefer your speakers after your foray into headphones I would have just ignored you or maybe even discussed it with you, but among the other assinine B.S. you posted here and in your other thread, to suggest that because I prefer headphones I haven't heard good speakers is just about the most arrogant, self-righteous crap I've read on this board.

I aim to please

Quote:

Off the top of my head and nowhere near a complete list, I've heard and spent time with various speaker models from: Totem PSB Paradigm Canton Mirage NHT NEAR Martin Logan Magnepan Quad B&W Kef Linn Castle Dunlavy ProAc JMLabs Acarion Monitor Audio Wilson - both Watt/Puppy and Grand Slamms

Good for you.

Quote:

So I think I've heard my fair share of good speakers, in fact I've probably heard far more than you'll ever hear, and each speaker based system I've listened to has left me wanting for something. It wasn't until I stumbled upon high-end headphones a few years ago that I found my audio nirvana. Just because you have found you prefer speakers does not give you the right to make judgements on the validity of headphones and those who prefer them. These are just your opinions so don't you dare presume to make them absolutes.

Thats your opinion, and I have mine.

Quote:

In fact I fail to see the point of you posting this type of thing in an online forum designed for people who love headphones? It's akin to someone going into a sci-fi forum and saying all star trek/star wars/X-Files, etc. fans are idiots who don't have a clue what a good movie really is until they've watched Fried Green Tomatoes or some crap. Your not looking for discussion with comments like these, your trolling for a flamewar.

Not at all. Perhaps I am a bit bitter to have wasted hundreds of pounds finding out that headphones will never match speakers. Thats my opinion though, that is the problem with forums like this, unless posts are littered with [IMO's] then people get offended.

And FWIW, I'd love you to go on like that to my face

 

[gsferrari]

A burmester setup fails to match my headphone rig for sound quality and detail and even airiness. When you want to hear the recording as it is headphones are the way to go. Speakers add superflous soundstage and imagine which [size=medium]IMO [/size] ruins the experience for me.

I can imagine why a floundering financial situation can make people think twice about a headphones purchase. Fact is - all recordings are calibrated on headphones before mastering. Its the truth. Most recordings sound waay better on headphones.

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero Well that's all I can think of right now. It's not really what you were looking for necessarily but I hope it helps anyway.

No, that's a great list. I actually have Paradigm Mini-Monitors in my home theater set up, and PSB Alphas in a second room, but I'm always thinking about turning my headphone rig into a sweet two channel system...there's so many great headphone amps that double as preamps, or even the Benchmark DAC.

Definitely won't be for a few years, and definitely won't go over (probably won't go near) $1000 for the pair. Looks like there's already lots to choose from, tho, and by then I'll bet there will be even more audio companies doing the "sell direct" thing.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbirkett I aim to please Good for you. Thats your opinion, and I have mine. Not at all. Perhaps I am a bit bitter to have wasted hundreds of pounds finding out that headphones will never match speakers. Thats my opinion though, that is the problem with forums like this, unless posts are littered with [IMO's] then people get offended. And FWIW, I'd love you to go on like that to my face

LMAO, your a piece of work aren't you, what exactly would the little man making veiled threats over the internet do? What's wrong, you can dish it out but you can't take it? You make comments basically saying we all have no experience and are full of **** for preferring headphones and then get offended when someone calls you on your B.S.? Give me a break.

And comments like Quote:

Originally Posted by pbirkett ...in terms of sheer musicality speakers will ALWAYS sound better than headphones, and no disrespect, but anyone who thinks otherwise has not heard good speakers.

have absolutely no air of IMO about them so don't be trying to pull out that card. In fact I do find them very disrespectful to me and the others on this forum so if my responses bother you than maybe you should try not posting things aimed at starting these kinds of debates/flamewars.

 

[pbirkett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero LMAO, your a piece of work aren't you, what exactly would the little man making veiled threats over the internet do? What's wrong, you can dish it out but you can't take it? You make comments basically saying we all have no experience and are full of **** for preferring headphones and then get offended when someone calls you on your B.S.? Give me a break.

Oh believe me, if you want to make an enemy of me then you've succeeded. You started this with your earlier comments. Nobody else took it personally except you, and that was not a veiled threat. It was not a threat at all. Why would I bother threatening you when I am thousands of miles away? I didnt say anything about what YOU had heard, to quote on your original post, then you lay the claws in, about what you have and hadnt heard, and that I am some kind of idiot because you've heard dozens of speaker systems. And I would have thought that it was obviously just my opinion. OK, so the title was a little inflammatory I agree, but so what?

You need to chill out boy.

Quote:

And comments likehave absolutely no air of IMO about them so don't be trying to pull out that card. In fact I do find them very disrespectful to me and the others on this forum so if my responses bother you than maybe you should try not posting things aimed at starting these kinds of debates/flamewars.

Your responses dont bother me at all. Dont flatter yourself. I suggest you go and get some anti-depressents, since your are clearly a very depressing person.

Do me a favour, and stick me on your ignore list instead of whinging to me, because I dont wanna hear it.

 

[3lusiv3]

Sorry to butt in here, but how does the sound of the DT-531 compare to either the Senn HD 555 or 595? I get the impression the DT-531 is actually similar to the HD 555.