[KevM2]

Apparently, according to that challenge, not only can people not tell the difference between cables, people can't tell the difference between amps as well. I guess this whole forum is a big placebo... Everyone's mind is full of illusion.

Except chartists. They do indeed have the truth. They have broken through the matrix. It is refreshing to know that not only do all cables sound the same, but the B52 and EF1 should be indistinguishable from one another. I guess I am done with my audiophile journey.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/all...69/index3.html

 

[scompton]

I'm willing to make a donation

 

[odigg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevM2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Apparently, according to that challenge, not only can people not tell the difference between cables, people can't tell the difference between amps as well. I guess this whole forum is a big placebo... Everyone's mind is full of illusion. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/all...69/index3.html

Buddha would agree that everyone's mind is full of illusion

If you are inclined to search for it, many people have done volume matched blind/non-blind tests between amps that are wildly different in price and sound (allegedly) and concluded that all decently designed amps sound the same. I even recall one particular story where this person who had spent a lot on high end amps did a blind test with some friends comparing those amps with a Behringer power amp. I don't think he was all that happy to find he could not tell the difference.

I did a controlled test at one point and came to the same conclusion. I'm not an easy sell in audio stores nowadays. There are other people on head-fi who share my viewpoint, they just hide

Anyway, I'm not posting the above to talk about DBT. So please don't make it about that.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by odigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure if any of these are quantifiably superior, simply because I haven't seen any RMAA or other tests on them. They are under $150 though. Some pro audio interfaces Roland/Cakewalk UA-1G which I strongly suspect is a mostly cosmetic update of the Edirol UA-1EX M-Audio Transit Fast Track USB Audiophile DACS. Super Pro 707 Trends UD-10.1 Some of those can convert USB to an optical/coax signal to be sent to your Entech. Is anybody interested in helping nick_charles out with funding? This is an interesting project and I wouldn't mind donating a little bit to help offset the cost of a relatively inexpensive USB DAC or something along those lines.

Thanks for the list. The ADC/DAC I am using is the Edirol UA-1EX and I am thus quite surprised at the variable performance at lower levels. I will investigate the options you mention, however in the meantime before I commit I (dunderhead that I am) realise I have a second ADC device, the Behringer UCA202 which I normally leave at work. I will try that at the weekend and see if it does better.

 

[olblueyez]

I spent the last year farting with cables and the last six months tube rolling and one thing I learned is quick A-B testing does nothing but add confusion and force a quick decision. When buying a new input tube (Makes the most difference in the sound signature) I would install the new tube and listen and then replace the old tube back into the amp. This did nothing but confuse me as I could hear a difference but I could not tell exactly what that difference was. Spending more time with each tube afforded me a much better understanding of what each different tube sounds like and what it has to offer as far as the sound signature. When I bought my Dac I could tell the difference between non-upsampling and 24/192 but I was unable to tell the difference between 24/96 and 24/192 until I had the Dac for about a month and listening to my favorite tracks.

Here is a Monet painting I chose because it is complex.

If I made some subtle changes, nothing big mind you, would hanging this painting on the wall in the living room for a month or two increase your chances of discovering the changes as apposed to doing an A-B comparison where I flashed pictures at you and asked you to pick out the altered picture? I submit to all the Blind testing people that they are right, blind A-B testing usually confuses people and makes it very hard to make an educated choice. Stereo equipment however, is something we live with and spend many many hours with and I think giving a piece of equipment a fair shot at pleasing you in the long run is so much more productive than dismissing said equipment based on quick decisions. I think this is why so many people do so much equipment swapping, "I bought the AKG 701's for the third time" is a common thing to read in the forums. Anyone can fool people by forcing a rash decision, there is no Science there.

DBT is soooooooo ridiculous for evaluating audio equipment and is only ever entered into a discussion by people who just dont get it. Seriously.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the list. The ADC/DAC I am using is the Edirol UA-1EX and I am thus quite surprised at the variable performance at lower levels. I will investigate the options you mention, however in the meantime before I commit I (dunderhead that I am) realise I have a second ADC device, the Behringer UCA202 which I normally leave at work. I will try that at the weekend and see if it does better.

Im in if you buy a new ADC or not, put me down for one of your cables if you dont. Merry X-mas.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Im in.

Thank you so much, that goes to show what a great community we are, that even when people have massive differences they are prepared to support each other in the interest of knowledge, cheers.

Before I revisited the cymbals test I started some noise tests and while I have not yet done 10 trials on each the analyses so far do seem to show less noise on the Sidewinder than on Stocky. Specifically the Sidewinder has fewer spurious noise peaks. I recorded digital silence so there was no spectral content. Both cables showed low level noise in the 20 - 200 hz range. On both it was down at an indicated -85db or so, clearly most of that is due to the ADC but there did seem to be a difference. When I have resolved the ADC issue I will revisit that test.

Quote:

Originally Posted by odigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif nick_charles' test results might convince a few people that cables aren't worth it. It's not going to become a world-news worthy event (unless you think everything on slashdot is news worthy). Nick_charles - no offense intended.

None taken

 

[odigg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the list. The ADC/DAC I am using is the Edirol UA-1EX and I am thus quite surprised at the variable performance at lower levels. I will investigate the options you mention, however in the meantime before I commit I (dunderhead that I am) realise I have a second ADC device, the Behringer UCA202 which I normally leave at work. I will try that at the weekend and see if it does better.

Are you using the UA-1EX in advanced (24bit/96khz) mode? I recall at least two reports (on hydrogenaudio) of distortion in advanced mode. People did not have the same problems when advanced mode was turned off.

Let us know what you plan to do. You have at least three people willing to help out financially.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by odigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Some pro audio interfaces Roland/Cakewalk UA-1G which I strongly suspect is a mostly cosmetic update of the Edirol UA-1EX M-Audio Transit Fast Track USB Audiophile DACS. Super Pro 707 Trends UD-10.1 Some of those can convert USB to an optical/coax signal to be sent to your Entech.

Sadly apart from the Roland/Edirol none have analog RCA inputs

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by odigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you using the UA-1EX in advanced (24bit/96khz) mode? I recall at least two reports (on hydrogenaudio) of distortion in advanced mode. People did not have the same problems when advanced mode was turned off. Let us know what you plan to do. You have at least three people willing to help out financially.

Ah, I am not using it in 24/96 mode but I do have the advanced mode switch set to on. I will try it with advanced mode off.

Thanks and thanks for the financial offer. It looks Like I have a few options to explore before thinking aboput a different ADC.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Im in if you buy a new ADC or not, put me down for one of your cables if you dont. Merry X-mas.

Many thanks.

 

[csroc]

I'm sad I missed this... round and round the same old discussion goes though.

 

[nick_charles]

Has anybody heard of the Infrasonic Amon? Distributed by Auzentech.

It seems to be a good candidate and is only $135 from a bunch called NewEgg. The reviews are favourable (I assume since I speak neither Spanish nor German) and the specs much better than the Behringer.

Since it is so cheap what I will do , if I cannot get my existing two devices to work reliably is I will buy it myself and when I am done I will sell it on.

 

[csroc]

Can't tell you about the product but the "bunch" called NewEgg is a very reputable online reseller.

 

[olblueyez]

Yeah, newegg is a good example of big buisness done right.