[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero There did not seem to be any such "assumptions" implied in the post I quoted, nor did I get that implication from your initial post. Regardless of that, are you going to tell me that we should recommend HD580's to a newbie that likes the Senn sound who is looking for a closed headphone for work? So you see, it makes no difference if you say that you assume they are looking for the Senn sound, not every situation is the same and blanket recommendations like you suggest are just stupid no matter how you try to sugarcoat it.

Thank you for your opinion

 

[nilanjan]

gs, what is the best way to sugarcoat a stupid blanket?

Seriously, I don't see the point of hurtful remarks over what is meant to be an enjoyable pursuit. The original message was obviously intended to be a guide and like most other guides, expressed the author's opinion. It was too innocuous to deserve such an attack even if one disagrees with the author. If people who share a common hobby cannot engage in debates without expressing rancor towards one another, then this forum truly has no point.

There is a war on, the economic recovery remains stubbornly jobless, there is a presidential election looming - in short, plenty of more serious stuff to get worked up about.

 

[TheBigDu]

Hey,

I'm a newbie myself (check out the post count) and let me just say that any true newb, having only heard $20 Sony phones prior, would be mighty glad with the A500's for the modest price of $115 shipped. I mean, what an improvement. (I just got mine today.) It's true, what I don't know can't hurt me. I read about expensive amps and high-end Sennheiser models and I just think to myself, "yeah, I bet they sound great, but I've never heard them and I'm perfectly happy with these cans."

So for true newbs on a limited budget, you guys really should mention the A500 in this post (I know you talk about it in all the others already.)

 

[gsferrari]

Done

(damn 10 character limit again...someone do something about this

)

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nilanjan gs, what is the best way to sugarcoat a stupid blanket? Seriously, I don't see the point of hurtful remarks over what is meant to be an enjoyable pursuit. The original message was obviously intended to be a guide and like most other guides, expressed the author's opinion. It was too innocuous to deserve such an attack even if one disagrees with the author. If people who share a common hobby cannot engage in debates without expressing rancor towards one another, then this forum truly has no point. There is a war on, the economic recovery remains stubbornly jobless, there is a presidential election looming - in short, plenty of more serious stuff to get worked up about.

You actually think my comments were meant as a hurtful attack?

The reason I spoke up is I feel that we long time members have a certain responsibility to help point new members in a direction that will best serve their purposes. When one member takes it upon themselves to post something that appears to be an attempt at a sticky with advice to all new members, while it may be only one persons opinion, they still should weigh and try to balance their statements accordingly. Proof reading it and sending it to others in the community for thoughts and suggestions may also help. They should also be open to criticism and suggestions by the community at large after it's posted. If they aren't thick skinned and open minded enough to deal with suggestions and criticism then maybe they should rethink making posts such as this.

I think gs had the best of intentions when writing this but his first three points in which he recommends different headphones are quite confusing. I and obviously others as well were a little unsure of exactly what he is trying to say. Initially it came across to me like he was recommending that all newcomers should just go out and buy HD580's and be done with it but he then says they should buy SR225's/SR325's or something from a list of other headphones of varying price. I wasn't exactly sure what to make of it and chose not to say anything until gs's response to bln appeared to back up my initial reaction of a blanket recommendation that all newbie's should just buy HD580's. My subsequent posts were meant to try and gain some insight for myself as well as illustrate to gs that some clarification in his original post may be in order. If this was regarded as an attack by the community then I apologize, that was not my intention.

 

[gsferrari]

I recommend what I have heard. I will just list out what I havent heard.

I still think the HD-580 is much better value for a newbie compared to a lot of cans. They are right up there with the HD-600 and HD-650

If it sounded like I was trying to push newbies into getting the HD-580 or the Grado SR-225 then yes - you are right. I am pushing these headphones forward as the BEST VALUE among all current headphones. I assume that the newbie knows which type of sound he/she prefers and chooses the 580 or the 225 accordingly.

I believe these two headphones are classics and will last for a long time as the rest of the system is upgraded with better components. Both these headphones sound great out of a $40.00 CMOY and a Rio Karma source so that should keep the total cost under $500.00 which is something a Newbie will be glad for.

After they have a basic system and know what is lacking then they can save $$$ and spend more on some of the other (Arguably better) headphones out there.

But with these headphones they cannot go wrong.

If that sounds like sugar coated stupidity then I place an order for a box full of whatever you are selling

Cheers!

 

[elnero]

FWIW, I agree with you gs, I also think the HD580 is one of the best bargains in headphones (I can't speak for the SR225 as I've never heard it) which offers excellent value for dollar and is a great starting point for a newcomer that will only get better as their system improves. My only problem was in the rather confusing wording of the original post but your subsequent edits and posts have clarified most of those issues.

 

[nilanjan]

I am glad you made up.

This debate reminds me of another question I had regarding well-known headphones: Are there any reliable measurements of their performance? As you probably know, there are plenty of opinions about various high-end speakers. Some people swear by first-order crossovers and time and phase coherence, while others value resolution and dynamic range, etc. But there are clear measurements available that demonstrate the performance of these speakers - such as frequency response, sensitivity, impulse and step response, etc. How we interpret these measurements and what value we place on specific characteristics is obviously up to us.

When I read about the Grado and Sennheiser sounds, and whether Etys are more analytical and Shures more musical, the engineer in me wishes there were a few graphs available to illustrate these qualities.

 

[gsferrari]

Tyll made a file available for download which had all the frequency response data from the most popular headphones offered by Sennheiser, Grado, Beyer, AKG etc.

check www.headphone.com and see if you can find the link to the project measurements page. I would find the link to the file here but the search function is dead

 

[plainsong]

They're right up there with the Senn600's as long as you have the proper source. Sure they can be enjoyed with a pcdp, but it may leave many-a-newbie wondering what the fuss is about. I mean, it's one thing to dive-in headfirst knowing that you'll upgrade, another to purchase blindly just because it says "Sennheiser 580" on the box.

There are other headphones that might well be looked into as well, that will most likely be easier to grow with, as in a Groovilizer, or a pair of etys.

This isn't an attack, I just feel it's stating the obvious here. But yes, this was a worthwhile thread to start.

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong They're right up there with the Senn600's as long as you have the proper source. Sure they can be enjoyed with a pcdp, but it may leave many-a-newbie wondering what the fuss is about. I mean, it's one thing to dive-in headfirst knowing that you'll upgrade, another to purchase blindly just because it says "Sennheiser 580" on the box. There are other headphones that might well be looked into as well, that will most likely be easier to grow with, as in a Groovilizer, or a pair of etys. This isn't an attack, I just feel it's stating the obvious here. But yes, this was a worthwhile thread to start.

I agree with your analysis. The 580 does need an amp (at least a CMOY) and I will edit the thread with this as a warning. I think the senns suck without an amp...they positively suck!!

 

[doug zdanivsky]

I know my 600's were very bad without my PPA..

The detail was there, but there was no dynamic sound, no get-up and go..

They sound great amped.. And I mean great!!

Where as the HD-25's sounded good without an amp.. Good volume, great soundstage.. If they weren't so gall-darned uncomfortable...

 

[LTUCCI1924]

HI: When I first came here I was not looking to spend very much money fore headphones. I just wanted a headphone that was better than the junk I had at the time. My first buy was the Koss portapro and it sounded great compared to my junk stuff. I paid 50.00 fore them but now the cost about 35.00 on line. I also feel that the Super mini amp is a great first amp that still awe's me on my portable rig. After I was here a while I went crazy and started to buy a lot of stuff that added up to a whole lot of money. But the fact fore me is a Koss portapro and super mini amp would last me fore years to come if I only had little money. I think a lot of the recommendations are if the new member has some money but I seem to think that a new member at first don't expect to spend to much at first. But hey we all are only trying to be helpfull and all replays mean no harm.

 

[TMC]

I think a good newbie headphone would be one that can sound good out of just about any source. If you get a new headphone for what you consider to be a lot of $$, what you don't want to hear is that you need to put a lot more in an amp before it sounds good. With that in mind I think lower-end Grados/Alessandro and Audio-technicas would be better instead of HD580 that is rather cheap nowadays, but still require more than your regular PCDP to sound good.

 

[wallijonn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari I assume that the newbie knows which type of sound he/she prefers and chooses the 580 or the 225 accordingly.

Isn't this a faulty presumption? How can one prefer something which one has never heard?