[Soaa-]

I've been wondering about this lately: some people, especially rock/metal listeners, seem to prefer a V-shaped EQ on their music. Some explanations were offered, ranging anywhere from an inexplicable increase in enjoyment to equal-loudness contours.
 
I've been thinking about this for a while, and tried making sense of all the relativity in the world of audio.
 
Let's make a few sound assumptions first.
 

1. When we listen to real sounds in real life, there is no equalizer applied between the sound source and our ears, thus the sounds are produced flat, i.e. without any coloring.
2. When we listen to real sounds in real life, the sounds enter our ears without compensation for the equal loudness contours.
3. In an ideal sound system, sounds are reproduced exactly as in real life, i.e. flat and without compensation for the equal loudness contours.

 
Why, then, have people been adding bass and treble to their sound? Sure, there's the explanation that cheap gear only reproduces midrange, so a V-shaped EQ would bring some bass and treble back into the sound, but... with hi-fi gear?
 
Here's what I think. Recordings these days are all affected by the loudness war, but drums and cymbals need a lot of headroom to have proper impact. Sadly, marketers have continually won against the sound engineers, and the dynamic range of recordings has been decreasing over around the past 15 years. As a result, instruments that set the rhythm, e.g. drums and bass, have been more and more recessed in the mix, and people have noticed.
 
So what do people do to remedy the situation? They attempt to reverse the damage without fully comprehending its nature, by using a V-shaped EQ. It sounds good, but it seems many don't know exactly why. And even with the EQ, the sound isn't ideal due to dynamic range compression and mids that recess when the other frequency bands try to take over.
 
All that to say, if the recording is produced with levels that reflect real life, there shouldn't be any need for EQ. It's unfortunate that it's not the case. Thus, headphones that emphasize the bass and treble and color the sound will still be around, and people will confuse it with equal loudness contours and there will be endless fruitless debates on flat vs. non-flat. And there will always be a Grado crowd. /puts up shield
 
What do you guys think? Am I missing anything?

 

[SP Wild]

Sounds right to me - as a drummer you are spot on with regards to drums - my search for an accurate kick drum sound ended in futility upon realising it was not possible with modern recording techniques.
 
However the loudness curve is definitely legitimate in my opinion.

 

[Soaa-]

I don't think it's right to compensate for the equal loudness contours. As long as the levels reproduced are the same as in real life, there should be no need for compensation. Bass notes in real life tend to be louder, so increasing the bass isn't compensating for our ears' lower bass perception, but for a deficiency in the recording itself.
 
It all comes down to the recording. Feed well-recorded music with realistic levels through a system with flat response and what you get is realistic sound. Again, it totally sucks that no one does that anymore.

 

[SP Wild]

I'm just going to add that one cannot continually play music through cans at the same level as live performance - you will damage your hearing.

 

[Soaa-]

You bring up a good point here. It is fair to EQ in order to simulate the relative levels of live performances at safe listening volumes.

 

[Groomsy]

Another drummer here, and I can relate to what SP Wild is saying. Especially having played live shows and gone to shows for so long (with proper protection of course

), there is an urge to emulate that sensation of "feeling" the drums more than hearing them. And unfortunately most modern metal productions seek to do that by overdoing certain aspects (triggering, overproduction, etc.). I sought after that "punchy" sound for a while until I started playing guitar more and realized how congested most modern rock and metal sounds.
 
I guess I'm more of a mids-oriented guy myself and have, in the past year or so, begun to favor a flatter EQ, even as a metal listener. Granted, I like for the drums to be present, but nowadays I'm looking more for accuracy across the spectrum while still having a lively sound. Maybe that explains why I've become a Grado guy these past two months.

 
Something else that I think plays into the issue of a V-shaped EQ is the fact that people are exposed to that type of EQ in music almost daily: Car subwoofers, dance clubs, PA systems at the gym, whatever. Ideally, these sounds would reach the ears of the listeners without coloration, but the truth is that most listeners are used to a non-flat listening curve through these types of events, so that becomes the norm.

 

[SP Wild]

Gosh how I miss banging the drums in front of thousands - its a power trip and you feel like a rock god.

 

[Soaa-]

I agree that some types of music are simply meant for a non-flat presentation -- dance music, for example, is played with obnoxiously loud bass in clubs, and is meant for it. If dance tracks were mixed with the correct amount of bass for playback on flat systems, clubs would experience nightly earthquakes.
 
For most genres though, such as non-dance electronica, metal rock, and acoustic, a correct mix on flat response equipment should be ideal. Compensation for lower listening volumes optional.
 
I'm sure a lot of you have heard about Death Magnetic and the absolutely horrid CD mastering. Thankfully, the album has been remastered by fans using Guitar Hero samples (!) since it was first released, and the unofficial versions sound much better.
 
Speaking of drums though, I want to learn to play them. Where should I start?

 

[Ypoknons]

There's been a lot comments on the loudness wars in the music forum, it's not just the marketing people. Sometimes it's the bands themselves because they wanted it to sound... 'commercial' ... at least that's what people say. And don't ask me about drums, my percussion skills are ughh..... noooooooo! 

 

[Groomsy]

I agree that listening on flat response equipment should be a normal thing, but something else I forgot to mention: Because most listeners are used to alterations in EQ, most of them would find a flat or accurate rendering of the recordings to be "lifeless" or would feel like something is missing. I went through a phase when I first switched to Grado that I felt like the bass was missing; but as I began to listen more, I just discovered that the bass was there, but it was more textured and accurate compared to what I had been used to. A lot of this is psychological, truthfully.
 
Some would argue that a totally flat presentation would be boring and should be left to studio engineers, but I think one of our big "themes" here at Head-Fi is to pursue the means which will present the recordings in a way that the artist intended; or, at the very least, to present the music "as-is" with no dramatic flavoring or coloring while still maintaining its detail and musicality. I think there's a marked difference between the two.
 
Anyway, as for drums. I guess the first thing would be to find a stick size that's right for your hands. I have tiny hands so I usually use 5A or 7A. A practice pad will be a big help too, just to help you get your bearings with grip and those first moments of playing. There's a whole plethora of options to start from, though: There are plenty of books and tutorial videos to help you get started with the correct techniques and will also give you some practice exercises.
 
Most importantly, though, have fun with it and don't get overwhelmed with trying to learn everything at one time. Listen to some of your favorite drummers and pay attention to some stuff in their style: Fills and transitions, time signatures, particular drum sounds, etc. You don't want to copy them per se, but use some of their stuff as inspiration. Be sure to listen to stuff outside of your comfort zone, too: Jazz, world music, fusion, funk, etc. I've been self taught for 11 years and my primary way of progressing has been to expose myself to different styles.
 
And obviously, wear hearing protection when you start playing full kit. Out of all the instruments, drums can take the biggest hit on your ears. Always wear ear plugs or protection of some sort when you're practicing or rehearsing on full kit, even if you're playing at what may seem like reasonable levels (i.e., not beating the tar out of them). Both of my parents were strict on me about hearing protection when I started and now I'm thankful for it, although admittedly I've developed mild tinnitus from my years in marching band and attending a few rehearsals without earplugs. Take care of your ears, you only have one pair.

 

[beeman458]

Soaa- wrote:
 
Let's make a few sound assumptions first.
 

1. When we listen to real sounds in real life, there is no equalizer applied between the sound source and our ears, thus the sounds are produced flat, i.e. without any coloring.
2. When we listen to real sounds in real life, the sounds enter our ears without compensation for the equal loudness contours.

 
A suggestion, take another look at what you hear in real life as what we hear in real life is colored from beginning to end.
 
Think about it, sound comes at us muffled from under a car.  Sound is reflected off of walls and through many, many channels, tunnels, trees and walls.  Some sound carries for miles and other sound is blunted inside of a few feet because of the sound damping qualities of the environment we're in.  Maybe you can define this uncolored natural sound you're writing of.
 
???
 
FWIW, my EQ line looks like a lowercase "m."
 
All that to say, if the recording is produced with levels that reflect real life, there shouldn't be any need for EQ
 
And what if you don't like what "real life" sounds like and you want a different sound quality?  Sometimes I drink my whiskey straight with no ice.  Sometimes I like to mix my whiskey with a soda like 7-UP and ice.  Sometimes I like my bourbon on the rocks, set to the side to allow the ice to melt and for the bourbon to open up.  Sometimes I like vodka and sometimes I like beer.  And sometimes I like to mix my whiskey with jazz.  Sometimes I like cars to be loud and fast and sometimes I like them to be smooth and slow and sometimes I like women to kick and scream and yell and other times I like them to......
 
Am I missing anything?
 
Yes, the excitement of a colorful world.
 
Currently listening to the Alabama band at 5/100.
 

 

[Soaa-]

Quote:

A suggestion, take another look at what you hear in real life as what we hear in real life is colored from beginning to end.  
Think about it, sound comes at us muffled from under a car.  Sound is reflected off of walls and through many, many channels, tunnels, trees and walls.  Some sound carries for miles and other sound is blunted inside of a few feet because of the sound damping qualities of the environment we're in.  Maybe you can define this uncolored natural sound you're writing of.

A good recording should reproduce the colorings of real life, no? Indeed there are many sources of coloring in real life, but those are a part of real life. By "uncolored," I meant "not artificially colored." Of course, that also requires a recording that isn't artificially colored.
 
Quote:

And what if you don't like what "real life" sounds like and you want a different sound quality?

 
Of course, there's nothing wrong with the occasional flavoring. But I appreciate timelessness far more, and a flat, transparent and uncolored sound seems most timeless to me. It's a solid reference not affected by changing trends and tastes.

 

[beeman458]

Soaa_ wrote:
 
By "uncolored," I meant "not artificially colored." Of course, that also requires a recording that isn't artificially colored.
 
So the use of echo, reverb, fuzz tone, feed back and other forms of electronic modification are out?
 
???
 
Currently listening to Neil Diamond and his recordings rely heavily on electronic modifications.
 
The point, personally I think purism takes the fun out of life; more rules.
 
Where's an audiophile to go if they can't EQ, roll amps, change cables, tubes, speakers, power supplies, dac/amps, headphones, etc.
 
???

 

[Soaa-]

If you really want to know my opinion, an audiophile listens to music, period. Method and gear of choice.
 
I listen mostly to electronic music, so they aren't even real sounds to begin with. Recordings should be transparent, i.e. not get in the way of the music. The use of effects isn't necessarily bad; it just needs to be transparent. Sometimes, the effect itself is meant to be heard. That can be a good thing.
 
Sometimes, stuff like the loudness war happens and things that are meant to be heard get lost in the mix. That is not such a good thing.

 

[Krav]

Yet another explanation would be the differences in sound reproduction equipment used. For instance, I only apply very mild EQ to my speakers (+4db parametric at 72 Hz relative to 0db at 3150Hz for the Adam A7 + 18" Velodyne combo), but pretty drastic one to my HD650 and DT770 headphones (e.g. +24db at 31.5Hz 1/3 octave band relative to 0db at 3150Hz for HD650).
 
Moreover, the EQ curves that give me subjectively flat FRC are quite different for HD650 and DT770, diverging up to 9db on some bands. Such equalization results in A7, HD650, and DT770 sounding very similar to me, whereas unequalized headphones sound very different from A7 and from each other.