[Flex2d]

What type of music u listen to most

I listen to a lot of stuff but probably lean towards vocal, instrumental, pop, classical, rock.. not heavy metal or techno related.

 

[ruinedx]

I listen to a lot of stuff but probably lean towards vocal, instrumental, pop, classical, rock.. not heavy metal or techno related.

How important is soundstage to you? Vs everything else you mentioned.

Do you love huge soundstage with sound everywhere or smaller more intimate

 

[Flex2d]

How important is soundstage to you? Vs everything else you mentioned

yeah I like a good sound stage
for instance I really didn't like the foster th610's, right in the head.I like space, imaging, refinement and feel cello chords vibrating for instance. but also sound intimate at the same time. but it also comes down to how the track has been recorded.

 

[ruinedx]

yeah I like a good sound stage

Well here's the deal. Your HD6xx can sound amazing for the music u like but the amp you have now is hugely limiting them.

The HD800S can also sound excellent, but you'd need to upgrade your amp for that as well

So if you spend like $500-$2000 on a good amp for the hd650 you'd get lush midrange with good extension and intimate soundstage

If you spent $1500 on hd800S plus at minimum another $500 on amp you'd get less lush midrange but higher extension and huge soundstage

So maybe the best bet since you have to upgrade amp in both cases is to upgrade amp first?

 

[Flex2d]

Well here's the deal. Your HD6xx can sound amazing for the music u like but the amp you have now is hugely limiting them.

The HD800S can also sound excellent, but you'd need to upgrade your amp for that as well

So if you spend like $500-$2000 on a good amp for the hd650 you'd get lush midrange with good extension and intimate soundstage

If you spent $1500 on hd800S plus at minimum another $500 on amp you'd get less lush midrange but higher extension and huge soundstage

So maybe the best bet since you have to upgrade amp in both cases is to upgrade amp first?

ok good call, I currently have a Yamaha as701and a LDMK2 running some nice tubes. I guess I probably have to assess which way to go, thanks for the advice though.
cheers

 

[Deolum]

I think musical headphones always are a deal but i think if something is perceived as musical often depends on the chain before the headphone. I'd guess that a R2R Dac into a Tube Amp is perceived by more people as musical than a delta sigma dac into a solid state amp.

Headphones that i'd describe as musical are

HD540
HD600 series
Grados
Hifiman Ananda and Jade II to some extend

What i'd describe as not musical would be like

HD800
AKG 700/800 series
AKG K1000
Audeze LCD X

But as above mentioned it depends so much on the chain before the headphones. Out of a JDS Atom the HD600 doesn't sound musical. Out of a otl amp it does.

The 540 is the most musical i've heard so far and sound extremly different from the modern headphones with a warm, intimate and lush presentation.

 

[ruinedx]

ok good call, I currently have a Yamaha as701and a LDMK2 running some nice tubes. I guess I probably have to assess which way to go, thanks for the advice though.
cheers

One cheap amp upgrade that might vastly improve your sound is the Garage 1217 Project Horizon 3.1. Its $275 assembled from the website at lowest aesthetic trim (Clear acrylic), the stylized aluminum chassis is a bit more @ $315. This amp will also work with HD800S.
http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_003.htm

...if you can spend a little more the Project Ember 2.1 ($359 built) will sound similar to the Horizon but also give you more future headphone flexibility with lower impedance headphones like grado, focal, etc. The first mentioned Horizon only works with higher impedance headphones like the Sennheiser, but its cheaper than the Ember by $85.
http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_004.htm

Next step up after Ember I'd go with Liquid Platinum @ $515, this one also works with most headphones - note for this one specifically you'd want to swap out your headphone cable for a 4XLR balanced one as well since its a fully balanced amp unlike previous ones mentioned:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305

There are also of course much larger upgrades you can make than this, HD6XX can scale all the way up to $2000 amps and beyond, but one of these would be a good first step.

Then after selecting an amp, add Schitt Modius DAC $199:
https://www.schiit.com/products/modius

...or the next DAC step up Bifrost 2 DAC at $699
https://www.schiit.com/products/bifrost-1

Even the two cheapest AMP+DAC I listed here though will probably give you a significant improvement for under $500 with no new headphone needed. I would give this a shot before you go spending cash on headphones with a compromised source/amp. Right now you really don't know what you want in a headphone because your amp/dac aren't really showing you what your current one can do, nor will they show what your future one can do.

 

[bagwell359]

Well here's the deal. Your HD6xx can sound amazing for the music u like but the amp you have now is hugely limiting them.

The HD800S can also sound excellent, but you'd need to upgrade your amp for that as well

So if you spend like $500-$2000 on a good amp for the hd650 you'd get lush midrange with good extension and intimate soundstage

If you spent $1500 on hd800S plus at minimum another $500 on amp you'd get less lush midrange but higher extension and huge soundstage

So maybe the best bet since you have to upgrade amp in both cases is to upgrade amp first?

My advice would be get a HD-600 and BH Crack w/ speedball - both used for about $700 combined. 660 would work very well too. 650 I imagine, but the veil/thickness always puts me off. OTL amps work great with the 800/800S too.

 

[Flex2d]

thanks everyone for the great advice, lots of food for thought and seems my next step up will require a little investment. will checkout all the recommendations and see where I go from there! once again, many thanks

cheers

 

[Flex2d]

One cheap amp upgrade that might vastly improve your sound is the Garage 1217 Project Horizon 3.1. Its $275 assembled from the website at lowest aesthetic trim (Clear acrylic), the stylized aluminum chassis is a bit more @ $315. This amp will also work with HD800S.
http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_003.htm

...if you can spend a little more the Project Ember 2.1 ($359 built) will sound similar to the Horizon but also give you more future headphone flexibility with lower impedance headphones like grado, focal, etc. The first mentioned Horizon only works with higher impedance headphones like the Sennheiser, but its cheaper than the Ember by $85.
http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_004.htm

Next step up after Ember I'd go with Liquid Platinum @ $515, this one also works with most headphones - note for this one specifically you'd want to swap out your headphone cable for a 4XLR balanced one as well since its a fully balanced amp unlike previous ones mentioned:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305

There are also of course much larger upgrades you can make than this, HD6XX can scale all the way up to $2000 amps and beyond, but one of these would be a good first step.

Then after selecting an amp, add Schitt Modius DAC $199:
https://www.schiit.com/products/modius

...or the next DAC step up Bifrost 2 DAC at $699
https://www.schiit.com/products/bifrost-1

Even the two cheapest AMP+DAC I listed here though will probably give you a significant improvement for under $500 with no new headphone needed. I would give this a shot before you go spending cash on headphones with a compromised source/amp. Right now you really don't know what you want in a headphone because your amp/dac aren't really showing you what your current one can do, nor will they show what your future one can do.

looks like I will be returning my headphones then
many thanks

 

[Johnny Golden]

looks like I will be returning my headphones then
many thanks

Give them ago first. If they give you what you are looking for than leave it at that. If they don't then keep looking.

 

[megabigeye]

^^ Agreed. Don't get ahead of yourself here. Listen to the new cans, and-- unless there's something shriekingly offensive about them-- give them/yourself a few days to adjust/burn-in/whatever you want to call it. Don't jump to conclusions just because one person on the Internet does or doesn't like something (myself included).

 

[TMM]

The intent is not to run 300 mW into the headphones. The intent is to have enough voltage on tap so that even when listening at low volumes, the amp can drive the headphones properly and deal with the spikes of power required to deal with transients in the music.

Which implies that the transients of the music are hitting over 121dB so your listening level is dangerously loud.

A safe listening level is no more than about 90dB SPL. Perhaps transients hit 100dB, requiring about 2mW for a HD6xx, 150 times less than the amp is capable of.

People are kidding themselves that they need watts of power or tens of volts available for their headphones. Sure, the amplifier needs voltage headroom internally to keep distortion low, but a +/-9V supply (giving say, at least +/-6V output at low distortion) is overkill for 99.9% of headphones. It think many people have bought into the myth that amplifiers sound better if they have ridiculous power outputs.

Over 100mW is entering blowing up your headphone drivers territory and it takes far less than that to irreversibly damage your hearing.

 

[Flex2d]

Just wondering if anyone has compared the HD6XX/HD650 against the HD660's?
If you have i would be interested to know what you would say the difference is?

Thanks

Daniel

 

[ruinedx]

Just wondering if anyone has compared the HD6XX/HD650 against the HD660's?
If you have i would be interested to know what you would say the difference is?

Thanks

Daniel

They are pretty similar. If you like/dislike one you'll like/dislike the other.

If looking for something different best go for different headphone.