[WrxSTI]

As the title says, I'm on the lookout for a new PC soundcard for music/gaming use, Christmas coming soon and all. I've only ever been treated to onboard audio my entire life, figure now's a good time to change that. The card's primary use would be music, and I would say gaming in an equal amount but with college hitting hard and recent games being so bad you wouldn't even want to steal them, I'm not gaming nearly as much as I used to. Hopefully that will change. Now, I would really appreciate the card to do EAX effects. A lot of great titles used them. My onboard sound can do EAX 1.0 & 2.0 (only with the X-fi hack though) and when I played Colin Mcrae 05 with them enabled, I felt like I was really inside the car, a whole different game. So I'd like to have support for EAX 5.0.
 
For now I basically have two contenders, I will list the for and against of each:
 
Auzentech X-Fi Home Theater HD:
 
Good
-Real, hardware EAX 5.0
-Great components
-Supposedly better headphone amp circuit than the Essence ST(X)?
-24/192 Analog 7.1 with no need for a separate card
 
Bad
-Draws power directly from the motherboard
-No EMI/RFI shielding
-Opamps swappable only for the Front L/R (wouldn't this lead to different sound out the fronts and different from the surrounds?)
-PCI Express (this is a negative for me because my setup would accomodate a PCI card a bit easier due to my motherboard layout)
-Price. Have to buy outside the country, $280 with shipping if I'm lucky enough not to pay customs fees.
-Support/Drivers - Forums seem riddled with problems (or maybe the users are just incompetent) and claims of bad support and drivers, is it really like this?
 
I don't care too much for the DTS-MA, Dolby True-HD, bitstreaming and other home-theater gimmicks this card has going for it. I don't own an AV receiver, HDTV, or Blue-Ray player so I don't see myself using this anytime soon. In fact by the time I get even one of these things the card will probably be obsolete. I guess I could watch BD movies on my 21" CRT in non-native resolution with a set of Z-5500's but I kinda feel that wouldn't be it

 
Asus Xonar Essence ST:
 
Good
-Better... at least on paper?
-Components are shielded
-Separate power supply
-1/4" jacks. I simply think they are cooler than the 1/8" ones

-Can get it locally for about $50 cheaper than the HTHD
-Cool posters
-Can swap all OPAMPs
 
 
Bad
-Needs a daughterboard for 7.1 Analog, wasted slots, ends up more expensive than the HTHD
-C-Media codec. Had USB headphones on that codec and they were a nightmare. I realise it's touched up by Asus but I still get bitter when I hear the name.
-Shoddy EAX emulation (missing or badly emulated effects)
-Framerate in games suffers a bit
 
That's all I can think of for now. Tough situation. The X-Fi Bravura looks interesting too but it only does EAX 4.0 :/
I'd like to know which one sounds better, particularly on the headphone output. The ASUS seems better in specs, but...
Any alternatives? (Doubt it, but worth a shot.) I know there are people who have auditioned both of these cards so I would really like a good comparison (ROBSCIX, chime in, please

). Thanks.

 

[Gradoman]

Seems PC soundcards are a bit dire nowadays, with Creative Monopoly nothing else out, and those with EAX support are based on X-Fi. I've got a X-Fi Extreme music, generally ok but like you- drivers. Has disappeared from device manager a few times. 
 
I think it's moving from EAX to Openal. Windows 7 doesn't do EAX anymore, you need Alchemy which is bit of a pain. Seems a backward step until it moves over to Openal.

 

[Mr.Duck]

There's no valid reason why games need to use EAX. They can apply reverb and other stuff using a software engine. In fact, games that do use EAX 5.0 cause the software based audio engine that the rest of us use to be compromised. Probably due to lack of attention. Not even considering the quality of the drivers etc which give even more reasons to avoid creative soundcards.
 
Plus the sound quality gets compromised by having an internal sound card. Noise leaks into the soundcard outputs. Probably from the graphics card through the power lines due to current (and therefore voltage) fluctuations with graphics card's load.
 
So I would seriously consider using onboard motherboard audio using a spdif output to an external DAC. Best path to high sound quality and no problems. Internal soundcards become obsolete. A DAC won't and can be used with a change of setup eg to a laptop one day.

 

[Gradoman]

You want more than a DAC for gaming, ideally a AV receiver. And a soundcard with gaming sound to DTS encoding. As for EAX granted it is basically reverb, but software emulation does make a hit. I do get some interference noise (using 5.1 analogue outputs into integrated and av amp) To remove this noise, I'd need to buy a av amp. 
 
A DAC is just stereo, and for games you want a full 5.0/5.1 system.

 

[WrxSTI]

I know games have no reason to use EAX. At least not new games, anyway. The idea is that a lot of the older ones did and I'd like to revisit them with EAX and much better sound quality to see what I've been missing. From what I've seen from that one game it's a lot more than just reverb, and that was just EAX 2.0.
 
I've yet to see a USB DAC with decent Windows 7 64 drivers, at least 5.1 speaker output, and a good headphone amplifier. Because from what I've read there is no way I can get a good DAC -and- a good headphone amplifier for $280.
 
AV receivers...yes...they certainly do look tempting. A soundcard that does EAX, digital output to a nice receiver, get the Z-5500 and cans amped by the receiver... Probably would sound great. But the cost of this...well over $600. Not in my budget by far

 

[Gradoman]

Logitech 5500? No thanks Low end cheap stuff that. yeah you do want EAX (if you still on XP)
 
5.1 gaming with EAX is great especially for FPS. Far far better than stereo speakers/stereo headphones. 

 

[WrxSTI]

Ah well, they're good for gaming/movies. I don't have time to work while studying so really the only stuff I buy is from savings. I've also not known as much about hi-fi audio when I bought them as I do now. However I think the only profitable thing for me to do right now is to get a soundcard. Even if I bought an affordable AV receiver who knows what quality the DAC and headphone amp on it is. It would still probably beat this Realtek codec. No matter what I run from it whether it's the speakers or headphones, it makes me think "Man, there's got to be more to audio than this."

 

[Mr.Duck]

A tight budget is another reason to avoid creative soundcard. EAX is already legacy now and would be such a waste of money IMO. Yes it's a shame that the game has it rather than let everyone have access to the better sound effects through software. But if anything that's another reason to not buy creative so you don't support this happening again.
 
I have run HD650 from realtek onboard. It beats Surround sound speakers IMO. I still use the HD650 for games, usually it's CS. I don't know why you would be considering an AV receiver. Way OTT especially on a budget. Since you wrote music first in the music/gaming title then for sure you want some decent stereo headphones with an external DAC or USB soundcard.
 
5.1 headphones are interesting. They could be good as a second headphone but I doubt very much good enough for music too. Most people recommended audio technica ad700 in the past when it came to the recommended gaming stereo headphone.

 

[WrxSTI]

Quote:

A tight budget is another reason to avoid creative soundcard. EAX is already legacy now and would be such a waste of money IMO. Yes it's a shame that the game has it rather than let everyone have access to the better sound effects through software. But if anything that's another reason to not buy creative so you don't support this happening again.
 
Cool, but this is Auzentech. They didn't invent EAX, they just use the chip (and make better cards with it than Creative).
 
I have run HD650 from realtek onboard. It beats Surround sound speakers IMO. I still use the HD650 for games, usually it's CS. I don't know why you would be considering an AV receiver. Way OTT especially on a budget. Since you wrote music first in the music/gaming title then for sure you want some decent stereo headphones with an external DAC or USB soundcard.
 
I know it does. I've not really gotten the result from 5.1 gaming as I expected. It was always like "I can hear the enemy in the back left speaker" - but never really able to pinpoint exactly where he is. I can do this with headphones far better.
 
I got the headphones part covered. These cans stack up well against those in the $150-200 range and I'd have to spend more than that to gain a noticeable improvement. Since sound is just as good as the weakest link in the chain, I think the Realtek needs to go. It really sounds bland and uninspiring, and that's coming from a person who's never heard a proper soundcard or DAC. I just feel music can sound so much better than what this chip does, even with my current hardware.
 
5.1 headphones are interesting. They could be good as a second headphone but I doubt very much good enough for music too. Most people recommended audio technica ad700 in the past when it came to the recommended gaming stereo headphone.
 
Ehh, I have a pair of them. IMO, they were never any better than stereo headphones for gaming. The center channel is a fail as it is not in center (only on one side), you have the subwoofer blasting in your right ear only... same as the Psyko Audio 5.1. Sounds fairly positional, but terrible for music. I'd rather avoid that stuff. As it is for games I've played CSS with the Superlux and Realtek and positional audio is great, and I don't even use the "headphone virtualization" nonsense because it makes everything sound like you're in a long metal hallway. But games are never really that demanding in SQ.

Replies in italic text. Would still like if someone could compare the two mentioned sound cards for me if possible. Thank you

 

[WrxSTI]

Anyone?

 

[Gradoman]

"best" is probably a ugh Creative card, with DTS live encoding, then onto a av amp/av processor. So best of both worlds, EAX for legacy XP gaming, and DTS Live encoding off board conversion for high quality sound processing. Creative though... and expensive. I've got a X-Fi it's ok I suppose could be better.

 

[WrxSTI]

Problem is I've read people say a decent soundcard is going to sound way better than a mid-priced AV receiver. Best I could buy is some mid range Yamaha or Pioneer, max 350-400$. I doubt that has very high quality parts in.
 
Meh; I reckon I'm probably going to go for the HomeTheater HD. It has a nice headphone amp and all. If, eventually, I decide to add something in, it also supports both DTS and DDL digital output so I should be able to get 5.1 surround out to a receiver or something. But I'd still like someone to answer this one simple question:
 
 
Does the Auzentech sound better than the Asus, on the line outs and the headphone amp?
 
Please someone who's heard them answer me this, it's that simple.

 

[Gradoman]

oh thought looking into Lexicon MC-12 HD or Anthem AVM 50v

 

[WrxSTI]

Gonna check it out.
 
Oh and, on an unrelated note...you think selling the Z-5500 and getting these for Stereo music would be a smart choice? (Man what this place is doing to me

)

 

[Gradoman]

yeah those two are really affordable.