Music, Films, and books that MEAN something!
May 23, 2005 at 7:01 PM Post #16 of 44

saint.panda

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rodentmacbeastie
MEIN KAMPH(see how someones good intentions can manifest into the greatest tegedy in human history)


You should try reading "The Road to Serfdom", "The Consitution of Liberty" (both Hayek), "The Origins of Totalitarianism" (Hannah Arendt) and "Open Society and its Enemies" (Popper) if you find the intentions in "Mein Kampf" to be good. Apart from Hitler's racial point of view, which shouldn't even be subject to discussion, it's in his intentions that the tragedy has already been laid-out. "Road to Serfdom" probably is the easiest to read from the bunch although it is more directed at socialism, which, however, according to the book does not differ very much from fascism anyway - if at all. I would also highly recommend Arendt's book. Popper is quite long and not the easiest to read. These are all books against totalitarianism.
 
May 23, 2005 at 7:32 PM Post #17 of 44

wakeride74

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I'm sure I'll get bashed a bit for this but if you want deep meaningful books, start with the Bible.
Meaningful lyrics (regardless of your taste) country has all other genre's beat hands down (I know people hate the twang). Movies, Well I prefer classic good vs. evil fiction or non. Star Wars (original trilogy and Episode 3), LOTR, Braveheart, Saving Private Ryan, The Passion of The Christ, We Were Soldiers, and there are the ones that are just deep and weird like Matrix and Fight Club which are also great. I could go on about all kinds of movies and music but those are what come to mind right now and that's my 2 cents.
 
May 23, 2005 at 8:00 PM Post #18 of 44

viator122

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Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda
I would also highly recommend Arendt's book.


This isn't exactly a "beach read" either, although I remember it being very educational.
 
May 23, 2005 at 8:28 PM Post #19 of 44

catachresis

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Everybody has a couple of books they wish they'd never read, because then they could read them again for the first (or second or third) time.

Two of mine:
Collected Ghost Stories - M.R. James
Kim - Rudyard Kipling
 
May 23, 2005 at 10:26 PM Post #20 of 44

gloco

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Taxi Driver
JFK
The Deer Hunter
 
May 24, 2005 at 12:38 AM Post #21 of 44

The Actual

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Riordan
i find it hard to believe that you really find good intentions in "mein kampf".
believe me, not one of his intentions was "well-meant", let alone "good" - and it manifested just as it was planned.



Do you actually think that Hitler just wanted to screw up the world?

I have trouble believing that someone could do something so significant without thinking that they were doing something right.
 
May 24, 2005 at 2:15 AM Post #22 of 44

Cyclone

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lollercheese
Movie: Donnie Darko.


If I could figure out what the hell that movie was about, im sure it would impact me much more. Still one of my favorites though.
 
May 24, 2005 at 6:48 AM Post #24 of 44

Enverxis

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Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122
Some people think LOTR is allegory. The books were written in the 1950s, so to some people the ring represents nuclear power, maybe the Hobbits, Rohirrim, etc represent the free world while Mordor represents the USSR, etc.


Thankyou for that enlightenment.
 
May 24, 2005 at 6:56 AM Post #25 of 44

YamiTenshi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Actual
Do you actually think that Hitler just wanted to screw up the world?

I have trouble believing that someone could do something so significant without thinking that they were doing something right.



I agree with you there. Though I'm not familiar with mein kampf, I find it hard to believe that Hitler only wanted to screw over the world because he was "evil." It's easy to say that what he did was "wrong" in hindsight, but during the time he had many followers who did not have bad intentions.

Let's not forget that it is mainly because Hitler lost the war that he is considered "wrong" today. If Germany had won our perception of right and wrong would be very different.
 
May 24, 2005 at 2:49 PM Post #27 of 44

Riordan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Actual
Do you actually think that Hitler just wanted to screw up the world?

I have trouble believing that someone could do something so significant without thinking that they were doing something right.



saint.panda with his extensive knowledge of anti-totalitarian literature could answer this better, but i'll try anyway.

our problem here is probably the different connotations of "well-meant". the rabidly antisemitic, dillusional hate-monger hitler considered the annihilation of jews (and many other peoples and people beside) as a very good intention - but i'm sure that is not what the original poster or you had in mind.

every religious fanatic and every psycho-killer is absolutely sure that what he wants and sets out to do is right - but nobody outside would call that "well-meant".
 
May 24, 2005 at 3:07 PM Post #28 of 44

wakeride74

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Quote:

Originally Posted by YamiTenshi
I agree with you there. Though I'm not familiar with mein kampf, I find it hard to believe that Hitler only wanted to screw over the world because he was "evil." It's easy to say that what he did was "wrong" in hindsight, but during the time he had many followers who did not have bad intentions.

Let's not forget that it is mainly because Hitler lost the war that he is considered "wrong" today. If Germany had won our perception of right and wrong would be very different.



Not to turn off topic but most of those who are "evil" have no moral compass so are often not conscience of what most with common sense would consider right and wrong or they are just power hungry! In addition the world knew what Hitler was doing was wrong long before a victory was in sight, even Stalin could have confirmed that...scary.

Along those lines I will also put another vote in for Schlinders List
 
May 24, 2005 at 4:34 PM Post #29 of 44

VicAjax

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74
Not to turn off topic but most of those who are "evil" have no moral compass so are often not conscience of what most with common sense would consider right and wrong or they are just power hungry! In addition the world knew what Hitler was doing was wrong long before a victory was in sight, even Stalin could have confirmed that...scary.


this is getting close to "outside" territory...

one could argue that even with a supposed "moral compass," right and wrong are often only seen clearly in retrospect. one need look no further than the actions and inaction of the leaders of a certain major religion during WWII.
 
May 24, 2005 at 4:49 PM Post #30 of 44

wakeride74

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Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax
this is getting close to "outside" territory...

one could argue that even with a supposed "moral compass," right and wrong are often only seen clearly in retrospect. one need look no further than the actions and inaction of the leaders of a certain major religion during WWII.



Without derailing this topic any further I'll just say I agree with you that "one could argue"
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