[Dannemand]

Does this help? On my V30 it would appear the Qobuz app is re-sampling, UAPP plays these hi-res tracks without re-sampling.

<dump snipped>

Great, thank you for that. So it's verified: The Qobuz app knows nothing about high-end DAC's on Android, just routes it straight to the mixer -- which up-samles redbook and down-samples HiRes. That's disappointing, but just confirms that Qobuz users really have to use UAPP, even for HiRes tracks.

Thanks again for posting this!

 

[csglinux]

Nice detective work there Steve - thanks for that

 

[SnobbyNoob]

Can someone explain why this upsampling issue hasn't been fixed? I haven't seen any real solutions, but I also don't fully understand the fundamental issue. Could the app developers fix this, could google fix android, could LG fix the phone?

Like I said, I don't understand the intricacies of this upsampling issue so I'm left shocked it exists in the first place, and doubly shocked it hasn't been resolved yet. I don't get how it could have been overlooked in development

 

[Pro-Jules]

So what's involved in using UAPP? Qobuz and and Android LG V30?

Is it simple?

Or is a a lot of hack-y nerd tweaks?

 

[Dannemand]

Can someone explain why this upsampling issue hasn't been fixed? I haven't seen any real solutions, but I also don't fully understand the fundamental issue. Could the app developers fix this, could google fix android, could LG fix the phone?

Like I said, I don't understand the intricacies of this upsampling issue so I'm left shocked it exists in the first place, and doubly shocked it hasn't been resolved yet. I don't get how it could have been overlooked in development

It's basically the combined result of:

A) Google deciding to make 48KHz the standard for audio in Android.
B) The ESS DAC lacking native support for 16/44.
C) LG neglecting to solve this in their driver for the Quad DAC (or the Android mixer).

There is a mix of stupidity, ignorance and arrogance involved in all three of these: The assumption that "nobody will notice" (the upsampling) and that some day we'll put 44.1KHz behind us anyway (it being idiotic in the first place).

I am not an Android Dev, but I believe this could be solved by modifying the Android mixer to perform bit-padding (like UAPP and Neutron) when receiving 16/44 content: Adding zero bits to turn it into 24/44 (a harmless conversion) and send it directly to the DAC in this format, which it DOES natively support.

This would NOT address down-sampling of HiRes content to 48KHz (as @SteveOliver found happens with the Qobuz app). That would require another modification to the mixer.

LG should have made both of these modifications from the get-go. Between V10, V20, G6, V30, V35, G7 and now V40, they've certainly had enough time and opportinity to do it.

 

[Dannemand]

So what's involved in using UAPP? Qobuz and and Android LG V30?

Is it simple?

Or is a a lot of hack-y nerd tweaks?

I haven't tried with Qobuz, but I assume it's like with Tidal, which means very straightforward:

1) Buy UAPP in the Play Store (or download the trial version here)
2) First time it runs UAPP will detect the Quad DAC and enable its HiRes driver
3) Select Qobuz in the UAPP menu and enter your Qobuz username/password
4) For audio purists, select UAPP Settings -> HiRes audio -> Bit perfect mode -> On
5) Play music

I was surprised how straightforward this was with Tidal, and again I assume it's the same with Qobuz.

For those who experience buffering or skipping problems, you can increase the buffer size in UAPP Settings -> System -> Network buffer size.

Edit: Support for hardware unfolding of MQA is enabled in UAPP Settings -> HiRes audio -> HiRes driver flags -> MQA. No other flags are needed, according to the UAPP dev, as they are detected automatically on the V30.

 

[Pro-Jules]

Many thanks!!!

 

[SnobbyNoob]

Thank you for the detailed answer!

And if I'm to understand you correctly, then LG is the one I can yell at until it's resolved? They could fix it with an update?

I'm not an audio or computer engineer. I don't even own a computer. I just like good sound quality so I got this phone EXCLUSIVELY because all the pre-release propaganda and specs led me to believe it was the best phone for that lol. Same goes for Tidal.

I wanna be able to plug my headphones in and listen to the music dammit!

It's basically the combined result of:

A) Google deciding to make 48KHz the standard for audio in Android.
B) The ESS DAC lacking native support for 16/44.
C) LG neglecting to solve this in their driver for the Quad DAC (or the Android mixer).

There is a mix of stupidity, ignorance and arrogance involved in all three of these: The assumpting that "nobody will notice" (the upsampling) and that some day we'll put 44.1KHz behind us anyway (it being idiotic in the first place).

I am not an Android Dev, but I believe this could be solved by modifying the Android mixer to perform bit-padding (like UAPP and Neutron) when receiving 16/44 content: Adding zero bits to turn it into 24/44 (a harmless conversion) and send it directly to the DAC in this format, which it DOES natively support.

This would NOT address down-sampling of HiRes content to 48KHz (as @SteveOliver found happens with the Qobuz app). That would require another modification to the mixer.

LG should have made both of these modifications form the get-go. Between V10, V20, G6, V30, V35, G7 and now V40, they've certainly had enough time and opportinity to do it.

 

[Dannemand]

Thank you for the detailed answer!

And if I'm to understand you correctly, then LG is the one I can yell at until it's resolved? They could fix it with an update?

I'm not an audio or computer engineer. I don't even own a computer. I just like good sound quality so I got this phone EXCLUSIVELY because all the pre-release propaganda and specs led me to believe it was the best phone for that lol. Same goes for Tidal.

I wanna be able to plug my headphones in and listen to the music dammit!

Yes, to my understanding they are the ones who can (and should) fix this.

They'll contend that they're already providing a Music app that supports the DAC and all of its unique features (HiRes, MQA, DSD etc). And they're probably convinced that the effects of up-sampling are too subtle to be audible. And/or it never occurred to them that the DAC's lack of 16/44 support could be worked around with bit-padding.

 

[all999]

Yes, to my understanding they are the ones who can (and should) fix this.

They'll contend that they're already providing a Music app that supports the DAC and all of its unique features (HiRes, MQA, DSD etc). And they're probably convinced that the effects of up-sampling are too subtle to be audible. And/or it never occurred to them that the DAC's lack of 16/44 support could be worked around with bit-padding.

Fortunate there's UAPP. It makes V30 perfect music phone to me. If it wasn't UAPP I'm pretty sure I would replace it in a few days of testing.

 

[buonassi]

Can someone explain why this upsampling issue hasn't been fixed? I haven't seen any real solutions, but I also don't fully understand the fundamental issue. Could the app developers fix this, could google fix android, could LG fix the phone?

Like I said, I don't understand the intricacies of this upsampling issue so I'm left shocked it exists in the first place, and doubly shocked it hasn't been resolved yet. I don't get how it could have been overlooked in development

next to nobody cares about android and the resampling issue - there is no market to justify changing it. The audiophiles who are in the know - are such a small sliver of the android market - actually, we're even a small portion of the V30 market! Android and LG clearly don't feel they have a business case to invest the time and money developing a fix. Do I wish one of them would? Well, of course I do. But they are very happily selling the "Quad DAC" using fancy ad-copy marketed to morons who are going to plug cheap buds into them (or better yet, run 'truly wireless' buds over bluetooth thinking they're getting the benefit of the "Quad DAC."

Kudos to UAPP and Hiby who support the audiophile market and see a business case here! I'll happily give them my money in return.

ps. What the heck is a quad dac anyway - does that imply 4x oversampling?

 

[Dannemand]

What the heck is a quad dac anyway - does that imply 4x oversampling?

I assume you were joking, but in case you were not - and for others who may be interested: I am very much NOT an electronics expert, but the following article has the best description I've seen of modern DACs, and how the Quad DAC probably works. "Probably" because nobody other than ESS and their licencees know for sure.

https://th3porhani.blogspot.com/2016/09/what-is-lg-v20s-quad-dac-and-how-does.html?m=1

tl;dr: There is definitely oversampling, probably more than 4X, as a means of shaping and filtering out quantization noise. But the "Quad" part rather refers to the DAC compromising four, essentially duplicate DAC modules, the output of which are added (in parallel) as a means of multiplying signal (current fed to the amp) without proportionally increasing noise.

There is quite a bit of discussion about this in the main V30 thread. I imagine the OP wouldn't want this thread to repeat that debate.

Edit: Regarding whether LG really cares about audio quality: I think they do, despite their obvious oversights with the software: The ESS 9218P is not a cheap component, and has to add significantly to the V30's Bill of Materials. If they were only looking to score marketing points, without actually delivering, I have to believe they could have chosen cheaper paths.

 

[archy121]

** Tip**

For those who want to Equ apps like Spotify/Deezer which don't offer an equalizer built in - Try the app Bass Booster & Equalizer by Coocent.

I have a pair of cheap earphones that have great clarity but anemic bass. After trying out a few apps unsuccessfully i came across this one.

Very useful when your headphones dont live up to expectations.

Anyone come across something just as effective and maybe with even smaller running overheads - minimalist. Parametric Equalizer ?

 

[nicoch46]

thanks

 

[fljoe]

USB Audio Player Pro Upgraded to 5.0 on my LG V30 .. here's some good info ...

Version 5 now includes a MQA Core Decoder (in-app purchase required). MQA (Master Quality Authenticated) is an award-winning British technology that delivers the sound of the original master recording. The master MQA file is fully authenticated and is small enough to stream or download, while also being backward compatible. The Tidal streaming service supported by USB Audio Player PRO features many tracks in MQA and offers a great opportunity to experience MQA.

The MQA decoder will unfold the MQA stream from 44.1/48kHz to 88.2/96 kHz and can also be combined with certain USB DACs that feature an MQA renderer (e.g. AudioQuest DragonFly / iFi DACs) for further unfolding to even higher sample rates.
Please visit http://mqa.co.uk for more information about MQA and https://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/mqa to read more about MQA inside the app.

I am going to try download some MQA tracks to the LG V30 from tidal and see whether UAPP can play them as native MQA ... where does the tidal app download the songs to internally on my LG V230?