Multiple sound cards--can it be done? Most definitely...plus E-MU 0404 impressions!

[Imyourzero]

I see this question asked fairly frequently in this forum and I just wanted to chime in and affirm that YES, you can have multiple soundcards operating properly in Windows. I'm running XP Pro, so I can't vouch for Win 98, ME, etc. but most people have moved to XP by now anyway so it shouldn't be an issue for too much longer even if it was discovered that Win98 couldn't handle multiple cards as well.

I currently have the following cards installed and working properly:

1. Chaintech AV-710
2. Sound Blaster Audigy 2
3. E-MU 0404

Incidentally, they were also installed in that order. I had initially installed the AV-710 after the Audigy 2 in my old computer, but when I built my 3400+ rig I decided to install only the AV-710 because I was going to sell the Audigy 2 (this was before I had the 0404). I later decided to install the Audigy 2 for its 5.1 capabilities, and everything went fine using the latest drivers. I've had the E-MU 0404 for over a week but I didn't get a chance to install & play with it until last night because I lacked the proper cable needed to attach my headphones to the card. Thank you Distroyed for sending me the link to a thread which listed the Hosa YPP-136 as the cable that's needed to connect headphones directly to the E-MU 0404 and 1212m. I ordered this little baby for $4.25 including (free) shipping via FedEx ground from Sweetwater, and it works beautifully! I do not have an amp yet, but I couldn't wait to test the card so I went ahead and ordered the YPP-136 to get me by until I can get an amp and the needed 1/4 --> RCA jack adapter cables.

E-MU 0404 impressions:
After reading some more thoughts on the 0404 by buyers on this site, I was very much looking forward to hearing it. This card is frequently described as having 1212m-like detail, but being more dynamic/punchy/aggressive than the more laid-back/neutral/"lifeless" 1212m. The card I bought was a lightly used one on eBay, so it should be at least somewhat burned in by now and so far I can definitely attest to those same impressions. This card makes the AV-710 sound flat, lifeless, and somewhat dull. It has the warmth of the Audigy 2 but adds much more detail and transparency. If this is how music is supposed to sound, it's GOOOOD. I'm not sure at this point whether the 0404 is colored or the AV-710 is just on the lean side of neutral, but the 0404 definitely has more bass and punch in the low end which makes for a more involving, musical experience. And I haven't even touched the EQ yet. I was able to instantly tell a difference from the AV-710 and Audigy 2, so that's a very good sign. Many times (as evidenced by some of the headphone amp threads), a user is unable to detect the improvement intially and is only able to realize the difference after listenting to music for a week or more and then switching back to the prior listening conditions/environment. I have a feeling that if I noticed a difference this quickly, the difference would be massive if I switched from the 0404 to the AV-710 or Audigy 2 a few weeks from now.

Bottom Line:
The E-MU 0404 is a clear step up from the Audigy 2 and AV-710, and I was somewhat skeptical that I would be able to tell a difference without an amp but I definitely can. I think it's one of the best values in PC audio considering it is 1/2 the price of the 1212m and some people prefer its sound signature to that of its big brother. This is definitely a musical card, and I noticed that while listening to songs through it, I was unconsciously tapping my foot or nodding my head to the music...something I rarely if ever did with the AV-710. The 0404 gives me exactly what I wanted--a musical, involving, emotional experience when listening to music. And thankfully, those attributes don't come at the sacrifice of detail or sound quality!

One more thing I'd like to point out is that, despite some of the things I've read on this forum, the 0404/1212m don't absolutely *require* an amp. I read where one person said these cards might do fairly well un-amped with high-impedance cans like Senn 580's (which has been true in my experience), but that any headphones with a low impedance rating like Grados will positively require an amp. That's just not true. My MS-2's which are rated at 32 ohms can reach harmful volumes being driven directly from the 0404. I know that reaching a high volume level doesn't mean they are being driven to their full potential, but I just wanted to let everyone know that this card will probably be able to drive just about any headphone to sufficient volumes despite the resistance or sensitivity rating. Physics tells us that with low-z cans at high volumes, the card will be overdriven and will start to distort at a lower level than with high-z cans, but the point at which that happens is apparently far above normal (or safe) listening volume because my MS-2's are pretty freakin' loud right now and I'm still getting clear, undistorted output from the card.

The mantra around here is "source first" so I decided to do a source upgrade before adding an amplifier. The YPP-136 cable is inexpensive and will let you experience the sound of the 0404 or 1212m if you don't yet have an amp or plan to add one later. I didn't want newbies to be under the impression that if they connected their SR 80 or HD 580 to the 0404/1212m that they would be limited to very low volumes or no sound at all. You can definitely achieve adequate volume with no amp, but of course an amp is preferred for optimal sound quality. However, I'd much rather have the 0404 and no amp than a lesser sound card and an amp. Source really does matter!

 

[comabereni]

Thanks for that. Now if only the 0404 drivers can be fixed so multiple EMU's can play together in the same computer and output simultaneously, I'll be a happy camper.

-coma

 

[dwin902]

Thanks for the info. I've been very worried lately over which card I should purchase. I have a question, though. Does anyone know if I can keep my Audigy 2 ZS, install the 0404 also, and then use the 0404 for music (I use WMP 10, not Foobar) and the Audigy for games. Can I just go into the Device Manager and disable the card I don't want to use and then enable it when I need to?

 

[BrokenEnglish]

you can, dwin902...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwin902 Can I just go into the Device Manager and disable the card I don't want to use and then enable it when I need to?

not necessary at all - try to direct the output of your music player to the e-mu (just like with foobar, winamp, feurio..) and set your a2 as standard-device in windows. so all windows beeps and clicks including gaming sound will come out of the a2, while all the stuff in your player will be routed through the e-mu.

 

[asmox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwin902 Thanks for the info. I've been very worried lately over which card I should purchase. I have a question, though. Does anyone know if I can keep my Audigy 2 ZS, install the 0404 also, and then use the 0404 for music (I use WMP 10, not Foobar) and the Audigy for games. Can I just go into the Device Manager and disable the card I don't want to use and then enable it when I need to?

yes, you will need to do something like this.. or something similar. that way you can use one set of speakers through both cards. you'll have the ability to use full 5.1 through your audigy2, the 2.1 portion of your 5.1 system through the 0404, and amp/headphones through both the audigy2 and the 0404 (though if you look at the diagram, you'll need to turn off the power on the speakers if you want to use headphones with the A2 in order to get rid of the rear/center channels).

i have that little drawing because i'm in the process of setting my stuff up exactly like that.

edit: btw, you route the 0404's analog inputs directly to the 0404's outputs through software. and then as the guy above me said, set your A2 as the default output device for windows, and the 0404 as the output device for whatever media player you use.

 

[bigears]

Imyourzero,

Thanks for the review of the

EMU 0404
Chaintech AV-710
and the Audigy 2

i am shure many users can benefit from that.

Most of people i know never heard about the Emu cards, and think the Audigy is the best thing for music ever... (sad)

Thanks for helping to take down that myth

 

[Hoodoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imyourzero I currently have the following cards installed and working properly: Chaintech AV-710 Sound Blaster Audigy 2 E-MU 0404

Zero-

I, too, have an Audigy 2 and a new E-MU 0404. My problem has been getting both installed and working in my PC without hard-crash resets. I first uninstalled all my existing Audigy h/w and drivers, and then installed the 0404 with no problems-- sounded great. I then tried installing the Audigy 2, but my PC crashed hard (like hitting the reset button) after I restarted following installation of the Audigy 2 drivers. I finally had to do a Safe Mode startup and disable the 0404 in the Device Manager.

I now have the Audigy 2 working fine (and playing 5.1 games), but now need to get my 0404 working so I can get back into recording.

I'm interested to see if you tried anything special to get your two (3!) soundcards working together.

My specs are: Win XP Pro SP1a, Asus mobo, P4 2.8Ghz, 1 Gig RAM

Thanks for any info you can offer on getting the Audigy 2 and the 0404 to work together at the same time. BTW- I was advised by Ichi (E-MU tech rep) to use hardware profiles to enable/disable the soundcard depending on what apps I woudl be using (games vs. audio recording).

 

[asmox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodoo I, too, have an Audigy 2 and a new E-MU 0404. My problem has been getting both installed and working in my PC without hard-crash resets. I first uninstalled all my existing Audigy h/w and drivers, and then installed the 0404 with no problems-- sounded great. I then tried installing the Audigy 2, but my PC crashed hard (like hitting the reset button) after I restarted following installation of the Audigy 2 drivers. I finally had to do a Safe Mode startup and disable the 0404 in the Device Manager.

you did it backwards. install the a2 + drivers first, then the 0404. when you're installing the 0404 drivers, it should ask you to overwrite certain files.. 'No' to everything.

should work fine.

edit:

Quote:

BTW- I was advised by Ichi (E-MU tech rep) to use hardware profiles to enable/disable the soundcard depending on what apps I woudl be using (games vs. audio recording).

that pretty much defeats the purpose of using dual sound cards to begin with.. not to mention it's completely unnecessary.

 

[Mr.Radar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox you did it backwards. install the a2 + drivers first, then the 0404. when you're installing the 0404 drivers, it should ask you to overwrite certain files.. 'No' to everything. should work fine.

I've read that you should remove both cards, wipe your system of Creative drivers (using DriverCleaner or a similar program), install the Audigy 2, install the drivers only (without any of the control panels (you can use the one described in this post instead)), use the driver updater from Creative's website, install the EMU, and install it's drivers without overwriting anything.

 

[Imyourzero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox you did it backwards. install the a2 + drivers first, then the 0404. when you're installing the 0404 drivers, it should ask you to overwrite certain files.. 'No' to everything. should work fine.

Right. This is what I did and everything worked like a charm.

 

[scottder]

I assume the AV-710 and EMU can play together in the same PC, right?

 

[Hoodoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imyourzero Right. This is what I did and everything worked like a charm.

Zero & other Audigy 2 owners-

Did you install the Audigy 2 drivers only, or the drivers plus the control panel/speaker settings/EAX/etc. software as well?

Thanks.

 

[isp]

Any particular way to go about installing both the AV-710 and a ZS?
Does it matter which I install first?
Will one setup try to overwrite any of the files the other uses?

Thanks

 

[MaMMa]

First off, Awsome read. Helped me a lot, I was googling for the same cable as you needed for your emu card

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodoo Zero & other Audigy 2 owners- Did you install the Audigy 2 drivers only, or the drivers plus the control panel/speaker settings/EAX/etc. software as well? Thanks.

I am wondering this also.


Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox yes, you will need to do something like this.. or something similar. that way you can use one set of speakers through both cards. you'll have the ability to use full 5.1 through your audigy2, the 2.1 portion of your 5.1 system through the 0404, and amp/headphones through both the audigy2 and the 0404 (though if you look at the diagram, you'll need to turn off the power on the speakers if you want to use headphones with the A2 in order to get rid of the rear/center channels). i have that little drawing because i'm in the process of setting my stuff up exactly like that. edit: btw, you route the 0404's analog inputs directly to the 0404's outputs through software. and then as the guy above me said, set your A2 as the default output device for windows, and the 0404 as the output device for whatever media player you use.

Also, could you be more detailed on the drawing please. I'm not understanding all of it. What do you use for your switch, links will be appreciated. The dual 1/4 mono male -> rca then the "backwards L" thingie you drew confused me. I pretty much got the rest though.

 

[asmox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaMMa Also, could you be more detailed on the drawing please. I'm not understanding all of it. What do you use for your switch, links will be appreciated. The dual 1/4 mono male -> rca then the "backwards L" thingie you drew confused me. I pretty much got the rest though.

lol, that's not a backwards L.. that's an arrow pointing to the cable :O

anyway, here's what's going on in the picture.

the rear and center channels out of your 5.1 system (in my case the logitech z680's) will remain strictly on the a2, but the front/sub output will be routed from the a2 into the 0404's analog inputs via a 1/8" stereo male->1/4" dual mono male cable.. and then straight to the outputs of the 0404 (this part is done through software). the outputs of the 0404 are routed via a 1/4" dual mono male->male RCA into the switchbox. what you use for a switchbox is up to you.. you can probably have one custom made for you by somebody around here for pretty cheap. it should have a female RCA input.. and (at least in my case) two 1/8" stereo female outputs - one for speakers, and one for my headamp/headphones.

for this part, just trace the lines -

when audio is outputted to the 0404 (say via foobar), it will go from the outputs of the 0404 (AO1 and AO2), into the switchbox, and through the 2.1 portion of the z680's or the amp/headphones, depending on where the switchbox is set. when audio is outputted to the a2, it will go through the entire 5.1 system because the rear/center channels are still physically connected to the a2 and the front/sub channel will be routed through the 0404 (out the front jack of the a2, into the analog inputs AI1 and AI2 on the 0404, out the analog outputs AO1 and AO2, into the switchbox, and out to those particular speakers). and then if you want to use headphones with the a2 you'd just set the switchbox over to the amp/hp's BUT you will still have to kill the speakers manually to get rid of the rear/center channels.

in short -

1. 0404 w/ switchbox set to amp/hp = output through headphones only.
2. 0404 w/ switchbox set to speakers = output through 2.1 portion of z680's only.
3. audigy2 w/ switchbox set to amp/hp = output through headphones AND rear/center channels of z680's (will have to turn off the speakers)
4. audigy2 w/ switchbox set to speakers = the whole 5.1 system will play out of the a2 with the 2.1 portion being routed out of the 0404.

edit: as for all those weird cables, you can have them custom made by somebody around here.

edit edit: also, if scenarios 2 and 4 above should happen at the same time.. like you're playing music through your 0404 and then windows decides to output a sound through the audigy2.. i guess one of a few things can happen. either the windows sound will be routed into the 0404 and outputted alongside your music, or the system will ignore the sound entirely.